Star Trek

From that list, decorative parts for our quarters is the only one that makes sense. Why would Star Fleet officers be trading the other items you listed with other Star Fleet officers, they'd just give them to them. Chief O'Brien doesnt charge people to fine tune their phaser rifle...

I completely understand where 68th is coming from.  A heavy crafting economy like SWG used to have doesn't really feel like Star Trek.  However, I also think, at least for me, the more stuff going on in an MMO, the more complex it is, the more fun it is and I'd like to see some sort of economy.

However, when thinking about what people would trade with each other, there aren't a whole lot of "practical" things that I can think of.  However, there are a lot of luxuries that seem like they'd make sense.

As someone mentioned, personal items for your quarters, art work, a special chair, etc.  And, while we may be wearing uniforms a lot of the time, we know that the people in Star Trek have civilian clothes, and fashion.  Instruments maybe.  Holosuite programs even.

I personally agree that people in Starfleet probably are not going to be crafting uber weapons to sell to others in the Federation.  However, people can certainly have hobbies that people will want to buy to maintain a certain standard of "living."  One of the best crafting professions to come out of SWG was the tailoring profession.  People always went to tailors, not because they *needed* to, to compete, but because they *wanted* to for their own sense of individuality and status.

Thats what I'm saying, the ecomomy should be very limited. As soon as it has a direct impact on the game, (buffed pants, portable cloak emitters,laser cannons) STO will be ruined.

100% agreed, there should be no enhancements whatsoever be available to craft. Sure you can boost the ships abilities a bit, but not craft items and then buff them or w/e.
But like we have ppl make non-essential items such as garments, generic items and such.

-Dexz.

I hardly think it will disrupt the space-time continuum to add craftable, tradeable, non-Starfleet-issue items to the game; in fact, if that's all we had to work with, good luck to the designers keeping things interesting for players who expect more to the interaction than a set of pre-arranged (organization, equipment and personnel-wise, execution and outcome) missions.  That'd make the gameplay as linear and tired as, say, the Metal Gear Series had become.

And I'm not even convinced that it's sacrilege to imagine Star Trek characters making, modifying or otherwise coming up with their own gear.  We've seen Worf go at it with his own Batleth.  (There had so better be a Batleth+1!  Shuttle crash-lands, it'd sure be nice if one of the crew had capped repair/salvaging skills.  Or if he or she brought along some Romulan Ale, or the ingredients to whip some up.

Do you see what I'm saying. You'd have a huge economy with a million jillion items. This naturally means you will have an advantage over me with your buffed speed boots and death star cannon since I refuse to participate in any of that bs. And people like you say the economy wont take over, you are kidding me.

Quote (68th @ Nov. 16 2005, 11:59 am)

You'd have a huge economy with a million jillion items. This naturally means you will have an advantage over me with your buffed speed boots and death star cannon since I refuse to participate in any of that bs.

Oh, okay, let's make a MMOG with only the 6 weapons from Doom.

If you're afraid of others having an advantage over you with items they've spent the time and effort to discover, craft or trade, then I'm not sure what type of game you're expecting to play, but a fully interactive and expansive virtual one it ain't.

Quote (68th @ Nov. 16 2005, 11:59 am)

Do you see what I'm saying. You'd have a huge economy with a million jillion items. This naturally means you will have an advantage over me with your buffed speed boots and death star cannon since I refuse to participate in any of that bs. And people like you say the economy wont take over, you are kidding me.

Geez!  Give it up man!  You really don't have enough experience with MMOs to be giving this kind of opinion.

It's going to be in!

Unless I missed something PE said something to the effect of " all players who would like to see a player driven economy can kindly go screw off because we're having enough trouble just getting a working beta out before the year 2341". So? Did I miss something?

I'm not even a fan of games like doom...
How many weapons do Star Fleet officers use? since we are playing as Star Fleet officers,
WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND!
Just because you're used to the way other mmos work, you want to apply that to all of them?
We are NOT taking the role of every frickin race in the galaxy, if we were, I could understand and want to trade myself.

'items they've spent time and effort to discover', you mean treasure hunting...

The game I'm expecting to play is Star Trek, funnily enough. Not Star Treks version of galactic Ebay.
Why cant you see that if it were your way, money would become the backbone of STO. Not the story, technology or the immersive feel of Star Trek, but instead bargain hunting, Star Trek style.

And Zaddik, for the millionth time, I dont want to see absolutely no economy, just a very limited one. If you could take in the information you're reading, you'd realise that.

Quote (68th @ Nov. 16 2005, 3:12 pm)

I'm not even a fan of games like doom... How many weapons do Star Fleet officers use? since we are playing as Star Fleet officers, WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND! Just because you're used to the way other mmos work, you want to apply that to all of them? We are NOT taking the role of every frickin race in the galaxy, if we were, I could understand and want to trade myself. 'items they've spent time and effort to discover', you mean treasure hunting... The game I'm expecting to play is Star Trek, funnily enough. Not Star Treks version of galactic Ebay. Why cant you see that if it were your way, money would become the backbone of STO. Not the story, technology or the immersive feel of Star Trek, but instead bargain hunting, Star Trek style. And Zaddik, for the millionth time, I dont want to see absolutely no economy, just a very limited one. If you could take in the information you're reading, you'd realise that.

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Well someone is getting all fired-up.  Lol.

At any rate, I want an economy.  I want a  huge economy with millions and jillons of items as you say.

Since you obviously have limited MMO experience let me explain to you how there can be large amounts of items in the game and still have very limited or no status changing items.

Take SWG for example.  In SWG there are heaps of items in the game which have zero effect on how well you fight or how well you play.  IE:  All the furtniture, all the decorations, all the clothing, all the houses, etc.  In fact most crafted items in SWG probably fall into the category of not having an impact on the overall game.  

Now if you don't want crafter making weapons and armor in STO that is fine.  But all the other above mentioned stuff is fine.  You need not buy extra civilian clothing nor furntiure for your home.  However they are luxury items.  Hence no effect on you if you don't want to participate.

Now for weapons and combat items you could have as mentioned above the ability to tweak them.  You increase on aspect say fire rate at the expense of fire power.  This would give players more freedom to determine play style and at the same time it would give crafters there part as well.  You could do the same on a large starship level.  Increase shield recharge rate at the expense of power consumption or damage absorbtion.  

And yes I am use to the way other MMOs work and I want to see STO use the good points of other MMOs.  You should play a few of them before you comment on them.  MxO was a failure.  Play one of the successful ones and them come back and comment on the impact of economies of the game.

I agree, one of the joys of MMOG-ing is personalizing your avatar with gear you choose from a "million jillion items."  I'd hate to be stuck in a Starfleet uniform from the beginning of the game to the end, the only change ever being in the pips on the collar.  Say a mission required you to go undercover; wouldn't you want to equip yourself with some nice® equipment?

Against the idea of a thriving Federation economy?  Someone hasn't seen Deep Space Nine.  But really, if the aim is to limit the experience, then by all means, keep things barebones.  Base the limitless potential of this entire franchise on a single by-the-book TNG episode.  Many of us will be disappointed by the blandness, cancel our subscriptions in no time and move on to the increasingly lavish competition sure to be available by 2007.

Ellessar - I know my experience of mmos is limited lol, but not that limited. MXO still had all the basic rules of most mmorpgs right? Lousy combat, lots of talking, lots of treasure hunting, buying and selling.

Are you having a Zaddik attack lol I agree there should be items like furniture in the economy, its when they start affecting the game that I don't like. Lets say we met in a pvp battle, you'd whip my as# because you have been buying/trading/hunting/crafting for majorly buffed items. You'd be able to take 100 shots from my phaser with your buffed shield, armour, boots, uniform and anything else you've picked up. Yet we are Star Fleet officers? We get all of our equipment from Star Fleet, and all of the equipment we 'use' is from Star Fleet.

So what could possibly justify a huge economy between you and me, Star Fleet officer to Star Fleet officer? unless you come up with tonnes of non-cannon bs, which will happen.

Crafting - I like to think of it as engineering. Going to an engineer to tweak a piece of equipment is great for free obviously right??

Quote (j1y @ Nov. 16 2005, 6:37 pm)

Say a mission required you to go undercover; wouldn't you want to equip yourself with some nice. equipment? Against the idea of a thriving Federation economy?  Someone hasn't seen Deep Space Nine.

Yeah an undercover mission would be great. So who would supply your new weapon to make you fit in...yourself on Star Trek eBay? hmm no, Star Fleet command would be my guess.

Your last point - this is where I think you are just not getting it. I know there was an economy on DS9 (it was my favourite series) between the hundreds of species on board and in the non-Star Fleet owned shops, bars and restaurents.

READ CAREFULLY - As Perpetual has stated, we will be taking the role of Star Fleet officers, not every race in the galaxy. So as I ask again, what would there be to trade between Star Fleet officers that would justify a 'huge' economy?

EDIT - and all your attitudes about the game being limited without a thriving economy are so wrong. Just like the series, I am expecting the great stories, species, technology, basically the entire world of Trek to keep me hooked. I dont need treasure hunting to keep me busy on this one.

I would like to see some level of crafting in STO but I wouldn't want to see the game deviate too much from the Star Trek setting, I mean, you don't see ships in Star Trek going around looking for ultra-high-grade metals to upgrade their armor or ultra-high-purity dilithium crystals for their warp reactors (Voyager being the exception as they didn't have Starflleet to supply them) in the same way that you don't see US aircraft carriers going around looking for the best quality uranium for their nuclear reactors: this isn't the job of military vessels. There are exploratory vessels that scan planets and other solid celestial bodies for resources, but they are looking for quantity first, and then a minimum quality standard later, ie for mass production purposes. Starfleet officers are not factory workers, though they can modify/improve ship components ala Jordy Laforge in TNG, and he didn't have to farm ultra-high-purity components/resources to do so. You do see Starfleet engineers turning rocks into replicators, to borrow an expression, in various episodes, but to have your ship's engineer upgrade your targeting systems because he found some new freaky material in now way represents the Star Trek setting, and even if that would occur that material would be handed over to Federation science labs for study and eventually incorporated into later ship designs. Star Trek is technology and knowledge based; the people with the best equipment are the ones with the highest level of technological and scientific development, not the ones with flawless krayt dragon pearls, or dwarven-mined mithril. SWG seems to be used a lot here as an example of a sci-fi game with a crafting system, but the fact is that Star Trek and Star Wars are very different: one is more of a space opera with mythical elements (Star Wars) and the other is a typical technology-driven sci-fi setting (Star Trek). Again, having a market where players can purchase/trade flawless dilithium crystals, freaky advanced technology from ancient races, ultra-efficient warp reators, is in no way, shape, or form how Starfleet operates. This could be introduced later on for the Ferengi, but the major military powers do no operate their military forces in this manner.