Star Trek

Quote (68th @ Nov. 14 2005, 7:55 am)

You're gonna need a load of stuff/objects/items to have an economy. In the world of Star Fleet,that just doesnt exist 'in house'. It will be filled with loads of non-cannon nonsense. Zaddik, you wanna see a mass economy with everything that brings with it, but no action. Have you seen Star Trek? Without pvp, the economy really is going to rule the game...what strikes me is that you cant even see that

You missinterpret (sp?) what I said.  

All I am saying is that, as long as people want it and it doesn't deter from anyone else's fun or immersion, there is no reason why it shouldn't be in the game if it fits the "story".

There's people here saying "If you want to craft, there's a thousand MMOs to choose from".  Well, by the same token I say that if all they want to do is run around shooting stuff, go play a shooter or a console.  If all you want to do is drive around in little ships, go play a space sim!

Aiten -

'(because it is in Trek as we pointed out - TNG eps where they are caught in a time loop, Worf, Riker, Dr Crusher and Data playing poker for money is a prime example)'

So this is it? This is your huge evidence you have of a thriving economy between Star Fleet officers? Very weak. Don't get me wrong, I know the Federation trades with other species, as I've stated earlier. Having a card game with other players for 'credits' would be great. But I'm sure that you all want to trade/buy/sell with other players. What would there be to trade that Star Fleet couldn't or wouldn't supply. (and I hate counter strike)



FivoAsia -

'Making a way for people to run businesses, mining companies, etc... is essential to the Star Trek saga'

We will be working for Star Fleet! Trading may have been a part of Star Trek, but it was barely a part of a star fleet officer's life, you know, the people we'll be playing as in STO.

These are the professions from the official FAQ. Funny I can't find master tradesman there?


What are the playable races? What professions can I choose?
The following playable races & professions are being considered:
- Races: Vulcan, Bolian, Human, Trill, Bajoran, Andorian, Tellarite
- Departments: flight control, medical, science, tactical/security, engineering

Since when was trading between the above departments a major part of Trek?



Ellessar -

People asking me to join their faction in MXO did happen, but it's not spamming. The only thing I considered 'spam' was being blasted with sales offers. Oh and MXO did do well to begin with, that's why every one of the nine servers was either full or medium to begin with, now there are 3 empty servers. And yeah, MXO has been my only real mmorpg, I played a couple others for a couple hours, but just couldn't get into them. I'm interested in this game because I like Star Trek, not because I like mmorpgs so I'll give this one a go.



Zaddik -


'All I am saying is that, as long as people want it and it doesn't deter from anyone else's fun or immersion, there is no reason why it shouldn't be in the game if it fits the "story".'

That's the point, it 'will' deter from the immersion of the game, and it far from fits the story. If we were to take the role of all kinds of aliens/factions, then I could understand how trade would be an integral part of this game, but we're not. We are playing as certain departments in Star Fleet. Having a gamble on a game of cards or buying a painting for your quarters is great. But that doesn't justify a mass economy between players.


Didn't Picard say something like 'money is no longer the driving force in peoples lives, we work to better ourselves' in First Contact. And don't say STO won't survive without a thriving economy, because it will for reasons I've stated in earlier posts.

So in my view there should be a very very limited economy, something that would hardly affect the game or players at all. I believe what you guys want will ruin the immersion.

(Lets say there was an economy, what things would there be to trade that wouldn't be thought of as a limited economy?)

Quote

That's the point, it 'will' deter from the immersion of the game, and it far from fits the story. If we were to take the role of all kinds of aliens/factions, then I could understand how trade would be an integral part of this game, but we're not

Honestly, I still fail to see why you would think it deters from the game experience.  On the contrary, I can't envision how the game will play without it.  Even though it's too early to say, PE has already stated that for the "basic" stuff, it would be given away, but for the most advanced stuff, you would need "currency".  This is where I think crafting comes in.  PE has not said how ships will come to be, but I just can't envision us going to a replicator and saying "make me a plasma core" or something along that line.  

I just think there's room for everyone to enjoy STO.

Quote (Zaddik @ Nov. 14 2005, 12:39 pm)

Honestly, I still fail to see why you would think it deters from the game experience.

Because I dont wanna be bugged for items and trades 24/7. I dont wanna be dependant on an economy to progress my character. I cant be bothered to treasure hunt. I dont want the main point of the game to be 'how much money can I get' or 'I need 10000 credits for a new mark 10 blaster cannon'.

ITS STAR TREK!

so... you guys basically wanna turn it into planetside?  fps killing and umm fps shooting and umm the ocassional piloting of a craft... thats what it sounds like to me

Oh lord no. I cant wait for the fps side of things but theres so much more to do. Story story story, intelligence missions, diplomacy, training, living and working on a ship, teamwork on ground and in space, becoming a higher rank and the benefits that will come with it, new technology and loads more stuff when another playable race becomes available. If you think this game cant get off the ground because theres a limited economy then I could make the argument 'all you want to do is become the head of your own Ebay empire.'

Quote (68th @ Nov. 14 2005, 12:51 pm)

I cant be bothered to treasure hunt.

But you forget, our favorite Star Trek characters had "lives", hobbies, pursuits, outside of Starfleet.  Recall that Picard himself was quite the archeologist--treasure hunter, if you will--Worf went on the pro Bat'leth circuit for kicks and Riker, well, he hung out on Risa.  (And if Risa ain't in the game, I'm not playing.)

Seriously, I never believed that whole money-doesn't-make-the-world(s)-go-'round (anymore) utopian bit.  On more than one occasion we saw Starfleet bidding on rights to a wormhole, "trading" goods for information, etc., all things that assume some universal economic standards.

No I didnt forget j1y...Kirk liked mountain climbing...shall we incorporate that to?

The best way to combat selling spam is actually very easy.
Set up a database, select an item that you want to find (whether it be an exact item, or type) and search for people selling the item. You could then see the price, location, seller, stats etc.
If everybody was connected to that database, there would be no need to spam.

I also hope to avoid join party spamming, but that will never happen, so we just have to accept it.

Quote (68th @ Nov. 14 2005, 2:03 pm)

Kirk liked mountain climbing...shall we incorporate that to?

Only as it might apply in the game, to a specific aspect of a mission(s)--which, admittedly, our one-time look at Kirk's mountain-climbing probably wouldn't... Picard's archeological expertise, on the other hand, came to play numerous times.  In Final Fantasy XI, mining and digging aren't crafts per se, but they can be valuable means of income and questing.

Basically, this statement from perpetual sounds ok to me...if they can live up to it...taming an economy is an almost impossible thing to do.

Will there be an economy?
We expect there to be some form of economy though we have not yet decided on its exact form. As in the series, an economy will be present, but not emphasized.

Quote (68th @ Nov. 14 2005, 12:31 pm)

Ellessar - Oh and MXO did do well to begin with, that's why every one of the nine servers was either full or medium to begin with, now there are 3 empty servers.

[QUOTE]

Oh no it did not do well.  MxO hit around 60k subs at the max.  That is generally considered to be a failure for an MMO.  Nine servers are not a lot.  A successful MMO launches with 20 or 30 servers.  Nine is small amount.  Eve Online which only has one server pulled in higher max sub numbers than MxO ever did.  MxO never did well.  It was a failure from the moment it hit beta and things only got worse after launch.  If you can show me any evidence of MxO even comming close to 100k please show me as I would be floored.

As I have already pointed out MxO's failure was not due to economics.  MxO had no worse effects of an economy than any other MMO.  MxO had what would amount to be an average economy.  If you think the economy caused it to fail then please tell me why other MMOs with similar and even more involved economies did much much better?

As you can see by the general sense of this thread, while this is not an accurate sample, it is rather clear that the large majority wants some form of economics.  I'm not even getting into the Trek side of it.  Just from a purely MMO gaming point of view economies are standard part of the MMO.

Quote (68th @ Nov. 14 2005, 12:51 pm)

Quote (Zaddik @ Nov. 14 2005, 12:39 pm) Honestly, I still fail to see why you would think it deters from the game experience.   Because I dont wanna be bugged for items and trades 24/7. I dont wanna be dependant on an economy to progress my character. I cant be bothered to treasure hunt. I dont want the main point of the game to be 'how much money can I get' or 'I need 10000 credits for a new mark 10 blaster cannon'. ITS STAR TREK!

68th - It's quite obvious that you've not played any other MMO (or at least one with an economy) other than MxO.  In a well implemented economy, like the one in SWG, you won't be bothered for trades 24/7.  You either agree to trade with someone personally, go to someone's vendor (an NPC stationed somewhere) or you go to a "bazaar" where your items are posted and you just go there if you want something, purchase and get out.  It's that simple!  

Also, don't forget...  This is a MMO.  You live out as whatever you want it to be. You make the game what you want it to be.  Some people can't wait to be a Klignon so the can fight and kick a**.  Some people want to be a captain and fly around and explore the galaxy.  Others like me would want to be a trader, like a furangi in search of wealth.  Hey...  maybe I could be a collector like that guy that kidnapped Data because he was hell-bent on adding him to his collection of rare items.  It's all about how you want to play it!

By the way...  Would you rather just go: "Hey look, I just killed this Borg and he was carrying a Dylithium (sp?) Crystal!"  Now that doesn't sounds pretty dumb to me.

I'm just repeating myself, youre not even reading my posts! I'm slighty outnumbered on this thread lol. Which is surprising because from what I read in the others about crafting and economies, a lot of peole seemed against it, like me. Especially in this post... http://boards.startrek.com/communi....36;st=0

But anyway , its this simple. We're taking the role of Star Fleet officers, not every single alien race in the universe. Star Fleet officers do not trade with each other (maybe in a game of cards or something, but thats it). Your aguments that this game will not succeed without an economy are simply not true. In my personal view, its more likely to fail.

but this is OUR story.  We make OUR way in the galaxy, we do not live predetermined lives.  There is trade, and starfleet personnell do have personal wealth.

Secondly, what is going to happen when the first of the expansions comes along?   No one will play Federation because they cant do as much as other playable factions due to the lack of an economy.
It would completely destroy the balance of ST:O.