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Starfleet Marine Corps

Pontious

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 17

Report this Oct. 29 2005, 11:11 pm

Trekkies,

  This is just me, and I know that this topic has probably been beat over and over again, and, of course, it's no use to beat a dead horse, but I wanna reopen it.

  If an autonomous unit such as Section 31 "may" be included in STO, then why isn't a totally legal unit such as the Starfleet Marine Corps. not being included?

  I think it would add a great, unique, and inviting aspect to the game.  It would give players the chance to have the starship-comminity experience, but not have to actually man the conn, tactical, or ops positions.

  The devs could also add in "unique" professions, such as combat medic, combat engineer, combat pilot, ect . . ., which would give players a total unique aspect to their online gameplay.

  Personally, I don't want to fly a ship (although I would like to try my hand at shuttle, or small attack craft).  I want to be in security, but I don't want to man the tactical station.  I'd rather contain problems on the ship, or be sent down to fight a ground fight against renegade Klingons.

  In the whole "war" aspect, the SMC would be a great addition.  Perhaps make it so that only "seasoned" security officers can join.  That way, they'll be leveled enough so that they can hold their own against a Jem'Hadar squad.  It can be an elite group that players getting invited to once they hit a certain level in tactical.

  Anyway, maybe one day the devs will include the SMC in the game, until then, let's show them that it'll be a good decision to do so!

VulcanInfiltrator

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 314

Report this Oct. 30 2005, 12:25 am

Hmmm...and what episodes were they in?

ColonelGraff

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 628

Report this Oct. 30 2005, 12:31 am

They were in Enterprise, which is set 200 years before TNG... and about 250 Years before this game. Marines were never seen or referred to throughout TNG, VOY or DS9, there was one vague reference to marines in The Undiscovered Country, via the appearance of 'Colonel West'- but that's it. All ground operations, however silly it may seem, are committed by starfleet 'security' officers, I know how preposterous it seems but hey, that's ####ty writers like B&B for you.

For some reason, in the future, you just send waves of people trained to guard the brig into battle instead of having a dedicated marine/army ground force equipped with proper weaponary and vehicles. The wonderful world of Star Trek, no disease - oh wait, how many trek episodes dealt with disease of the week killing crew, no war- oh wait, how many federation citizens died in various engagements thoughout the show, no poverty- oh, how many federation citizens were abandoned when colonies were recklessly handed over to the cardies? Hmm, whatever... the writers suck.

The justification for not having marines in the game is that simple. It's not canon, not as far TNG era Trek is concerned anyway, and the canon junkies would have a fit if they were included. I'm on the fence, not bothered eitherway, it's not P.E's fault that TNG era and beyond got so pussified.

Abbadon

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 132

Report this Oct. 30 2005, 3:22 pm

The addition of Marines in Enterpire was, like many things in the series, purely for ratings. Its one of the many reasons I, and I think a lot of people, disliked the series and I'll be very disappointed if we see them in ST:O.

I don't see how such an organisation can fit into Star Trek, an organisation which seems to go completely against the ethos of the series. When Gene Roddenbery created the series it was not all "lets blow up some aliens, and have some sweet combat going on". It was about an idelic future where mankind has put its problems behind it and is moving out for peaceful exploration. Not flying around with a bunch of gun-weilding, trigger-happy marines to throw at anyone who disagrees with you.

I also dislike the implication that Security Officers don't recive adequate training, and think that starship Security already has very little to do without being replaced by soldiers.

Kinneas

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1877

Report this Oct. 30 2005, 5:23 pm

Riker is a MACO (marine).
Starfleet 'is' the military arm of the UFP.

I personally want to captain'...but I want to captain the big boy 'marine' carriers that can drop 3,200  marines wherever you want in 1/2 hour.

I am ALL for security forces advancing into the marine ranks and think they will be VERY needed for boarding parties and ground assault.

Combat engineers are some of the deadliest people in the universe (imo).

Ellessar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1848

Report this Oct. 30 2005, 8:36 pm

Quote (Abbadon @ Oct. 30 2005, 12:22 pm)
Not flying around with a bunch of gun-weilding, trigger-happy marines to throw at anyone who disagrees with you.

I also dislike the implication that Security Officers don't recive adequate training, and think that starship Security already has very little to do without being replaced by soldiers.

[QUOTE]

You my friend take the cake for having one of the worst mistaken impressions of the military I have ever seen.  I would suggest one thing to you.  Either do a tour of service in the military or simply don't ever speak in regards to the military.  Your conceptions of marines as trigger happy brutes is quite frankly offensive.  Is that what you actually think of marines?  That they just go around killing people and blowing things up?  I have been in the service a for a long while now, and I can say with absolutle certainty that some of the finest men I have ever known are or were United States Marines.  

In terms of your thoughts of security forces being up to the task of ground warfare.  Well again you are speaking on something you obviously have no clue about.  It is not that StarFleet security would be poorly trained, it would be that their training would be in a different area.  You couldn't put a modern day US Marine on the bridge of a ship and expect him to be able to operate a vessel.  Likewise you couldn't put a sailor in a platoon and expect him to do the job well.  It is not that one of them has less training or worse training.  It is that they would have different training.  

In terms of the game, well my stance here is similar to ColonelGraff.  The idea that Starfleet wouldn't or doesn't have a branch of the service devouted to ground warfare is mind boggeling.  However, that would seem to be the most canon interpertation of Star Trek.  There can be some dispute on this, but the existence of an army of marine corps has never really been officially stated in any of the series set in the TNG and post TNG era.  Plus even if marines were a canon point, the game's focus is not said to be ground warfare, so marines would not fit in well into the current game design.  I personally would like to see them make it to the game, but at the moment the inclusion of such a class would only serive to complicate matters.

TxHawkeye

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12

Report this Oct. 30 2005, 9:42 pm

Allow me to bring to the table another way of looking at this. Perpetual introduced to us the use of Starfleet's Security Department attached with "heavy weapons, energy shields, pattern enhancers and more with any mix of defensive, offensive and support characters". While we are yet unaware of what exactly this heavy weaponry will consist of, this in itself indicates to me that the security team of a star ship WILL have the capability of acting very similiar to that of the Starfleet Marine Corps.

I also offer you the following:

Quote
"Why in the hell can't the Army do it if the Marines can? They are the same kind of men; why can't they be like Marines?"
~ Gen. John J. Pershing, 12 February 1918


Seriously. If security is going to be loaded with all of this fine Starfleet equipment beyond the standard phasers and photon rifles you'd normally see on board a Galaxy Class starship, why in the world can we not turn an on board security team into an on board Marine Corps? The only thing you need is the proper mentality to successfully pull it off.

This is merely a constructive suggestion of course.

steve2001

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 200

Report this Oct. 30 2005, 10:25 pm

Perhaps Marines will be added after launch.  This would give PE time to do a good job on them as opposes to rushing out a half finished class that you then cannot balance properly.

Jason_M_Craz

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 701

Report this Oct. 30 2005, 10:49 pm

Quote (Kinneas @ Oct. 30 2005, 2:23 pm)
Riker is a MACO (marine).

SAY WHAT???

Monkeymantjg

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 257

Report this Oct. 30 2005, 11:42 pm

ok this is gonna seem simple yet stupid.

Make a community marine Corp and collectivly do mission only made for Marines.
eg. Board, Sweap and Clear.
eg. Land, Sweap and Clear.
eg. Advance and Secure.

Whatever military term you want but make a websited community dedicated to Manned military action ( weman too )

In one episode Jake sico was on a planet and ran from an artility boimbardment and jumped into a crater and found a mortally wounded Federation ground soldier that was hand to hand fighting Klingons. Now tis guy was bigger then your average clean cut security guard in fact he looked older heavyer biuld and looked like he can take care of himself well.

Some secuirty gaurds could be given advanced training and some secuirty gaurds are bigger then others. You wouldnt put an 80lb girl checking for weapons in a Klingon tavern.

Kinneas

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1877

Report this Oct. 31 2005, 1:03 am

Well we do know that one premise of the storyline is going to be galactic war.

    Time for the 'mythical' Starfleet Marines to have their finest hour.

Rejor

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POSTS: 79

Report this Oct. 31 2005, 10:22 am

Hoorah ^^

VulcanInfiltrator

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 314

Report this Oct. 31 2005, 10:26 am

Personally, I would prefer that Marines are not in the game. At that point it would stop being Star Trek and start being Halo. Besides, anything Marines are needed for, Security can do just as well. If you added Marines, Security would be out of a job. Plus it wouldn't be canon, so it's not likely PE will add Marines.

Pontious

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 17

Report this Oct. 31 2005, 8:20 pm

Peeps,

Actually, Marines were in DS9. "The Siege of AR-551," I do believe. Nog admires them, till he gets his leg blown off. They have slightly different uniforms, ect. . . .

  In regards to VulcanInfiltrator, Marines wouldn't take over Security.  In fact, security/tactical would be basically ship based, while Marines would be basically ground based.  Instead of taking random security officers, take some Marines on an away mission.  They'd recieve more training for ground tactics, while security officers would get more tactical (ship to ship) weapons training.

  In regards to those who think Marines (US or Starfleet) are jarheads, think again.  Marines come out with the least amount of casialties in most modern-day wars because of their training.  The same would be applied for Starfleet.  Again, think "Elite Force."

  Abbadon -- remember, the Federation has most of the unpleasant aspects that other races have.  Think Romulan Tal Shair is equal to Federation Section 31.  Klingons have shock troops, Romulans have Remans; the Federation has to have some people that are basically ground-based military.  Again, think modern days . . . the Marines are a department of the Navy.

  That's why I think Marines should be in the game.  They have been in the Dominion Wars (DS9 canon), and although I'm not into Enterprise, there is MACO.  It's established, and works.

-Pontious

VulcanInfiltrator

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 314

Report this Nov. 01 2005, 12:24 am

So what you're saying is if you go Security you get stuck on a ship? Sounds fun, sign me up. Pfffft. :eyesroll: If you ask me all "classes" should be useful both on ships and on away teams. If you split Security into Marines and Tactical both of them would probably be sitting around bored half of the time. And just because you're in Security shouldn't meandn that you have to run the tactical station. There will probably be tons of security personell on one ship, tactical will probably only be manned by a select few.
In reference to The Siege of AR-558 it says nothing of them being Marines on StarTrek.com. In fact if you type in Marines in the StarTrek.com search engine there will be zero results. Go ahead. Try it.

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