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Devs: Community wants 3D space combat!

AquaIllusion

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 90

Report this Sep. 30 2005, 7:01 pm

Indeed, even if no one actually gets to see the ship outside of the viewscreen, combat is not only about looking cool. Atleast combat in a good game.  It's also about the ability to perform strategies that could change the outcome of the battle. The ability to surprise your enemy with a fancy maneuver that gives you the upper hand for a moment. The ability to survive against overwhelming odds cause you have a kick-### helmsman. The ability to actually feel like you are there, in the ST universe. I just feel these things would work better when combat is 3D.

Quote
I will be >sort of< OK with a 3D environment that slightly limits the ships to all be facing the same up/down direction, like a Galactic up and down that the canon seems to promote.


That's a good idea. It would provide a somewhat easier control system to those who either dont want to or cant properly use a 3D space system. However, it should be able to be overidden by a pilot who feels that they could perform better without it.

ElevenThirtyOne

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 77

Report this Oct. 03 2005, 1:22 pm

I think their has been enough precedence for 3D space movement and combat that PE need not worry about a 3D system being too complicated for "some" users.

Nothing frustrates me more then when a MMOG catters too much to the lowest common idiot. I could name countless examples of MMOG carebare-ism but sufice it to say that is ruins the game for everyone else.

ElevenThirtyOne

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 77

Report this Oct. 06 2005, 9:55 am

Any other helmsmen want-to-be's that want to weight in on this issue?

ian967

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 637

Report this Oct. 06 2005, 10:07 am

Quote (ElevenThirtyOne @ Oct. 06 2005, 6:55 am)
Any other helmsmen want-to-be's that want to weight in on this issue?

i think your answer have been changed now in the new  interveiw
which is also posted on these forums :interveiw post

ElevenThirtyOne

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 77

Report this Oct. 06 2005, 11:55 am

Quote
i think your answer have been changed now in the new  interveiw


What do you mean? I read it. Nothing has been changed...

chase2806

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 88

Report this Oct. 07 2005, 12:11 am

I need to have 3D flight and combat in this game.  Its the one of things that can make this great to play.  I need my ship to have the ability to dodge incoming fire or to take a blow for a friendly ship or to ram my vessel into the enemy's warp core.  3D space mobility is necessary for us and the game to survive.

ElevenThirtyOne

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 77

Report this Oct. 07 2005, 6:05 pm

Quote (chase2806 @ Oct. 06 2005, 9:11 pm)
I need to have 3D flight and combat in this game. Its the one of things that can make this great to play. I need my ship to have the ability to dodge incoming fire or to take a blow for a friendly ship or to ram my vessel into the enemy's warp core. 3D space mobility is necessary for us and the game to survive.

I absolutely agree. Without 3D ability ship maneuvrability and space combat as a whole will be nerfed to nothingness.

bjseward

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16

Report this Oct. 07 2005, 7:40 pm

Quote (Jonus @ Sep. 18 2005, 3:16 pm)
...It is highly dependent on the situation. A admiral for example who want's to plan the next attack strike for a sector will probably like to have a 2d grid to make his moves. I captain of a ship on the other hand probably want to take cover behind a moon and needs the 3d dimension to do so. A pilot probaly want's direct control of the ship for such a reasonable thing like to warp out of a space station....

Signed

Being disabled I like the 2d idea, but at times I may want to pull my joystick out and do 3d. However, there has to be cut-away scenes such as entering a planet's orbit, showing a looming Bird of Prey, showing a direct hit, etc. whether we play 2d or 3d. Half of the fun is seeing space in 3d. Of course, hopefully, we will be able to see 3d representations out of the observation windows, quarters, etc. But watching an episodeof Trek I love seeing the outer space scenes. I see STO as much as a game, as a virtual life. I've been doing Trek PBeM's since 1996 and half of game play is creating an alternate lifestyle by way of the character. I played one character for 6 years, writing flashbacks from birth, and played from an ensign to commander until he died. Anyways, seeing outer-space is part of the Trek experience.

And as Sook30 says , "All that said.....there has to be SOME form of 2D to the navigational side of things.  Otherwise, 20 sectors of space, cubed, would cover a much shorter distance than 20 linear sectors."

Agreed, so while some 3d is needed, 2d is a neccessity.

StarReach

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 17

Report this Oct. 10 2005, 4:35 pm

Well, I'd say I want a slightly more specific elaboration from PE before I totally bash their current design, but the thought of 3D in space, especially in combat, sounds extremely attractive and if done well would hold up to expectations. However, the notion that 'PE has time and money and could do it but are too lazy or want money for themselves' just doesn't hold up. They have a budget. Budget. It's probably already decided, just like the amount of time they have.

What this is about, really, is priorities. What do they value higher than what? And there are a lot of things to consider when doing game design, so saying things like 'what could be more important?!' doesn't hold up.

If flying with a spaceship is to be a fun and exciting 3D-experience, which I dearly hope, I do agree it should be optional to some degree. The learning curve can't be too steep or it simply won't be fun (and that's what matters in the end). I'd rather have a 2D system that is medium-difficult to learn and allows for me to execute more intricate stuff as I get more experience, than a 3D system that I can't learn at all to begin with (or that would be excessively hard to master).

The ideal would be a (3D) system that allows the player to get an upper edge in piloting by taking advantage of harder manuevers, like those available in 3D.

Anyway, to recap, I for one would like an elaboration from PE on the current designs of the piloting/space combat/whatever-system as well as a motivation as to why it was opted before I choose to bash it.

kimNO

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 195

Report this Oct. 11 2005, 7:21 am

Anyone who can imagine its maybe some reason they think on limiting the movements of ships? like, high degree of ship physics, or damage on external hull affecting whats inside there, and requiring enormous server capacity?

If it mean an superb game, i think it sounds great. Games like EVE usually dont use their 3D in any meaningfull way, and PvP is an blob affair, same with PvE.

Keogh

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 602

Report this Oct. 11 2005, 9:08 am

Ploting a course ( navigation ) on a 2D map and moving ( piloting ) your ship through 3D space are two diffrent things. If they stick with the 2D concept ( flat as a pancake ) ship combat will be like maneuvering American Civil War ironclad vessels on the Mississippi River. In fact it might not even be that exciting, the ironclads had to deal with sandbars, obstcles and current.

If PE doesn't develop space travel/combat as 3D, they might as well not do it at all or pull a SWG and add it as an expansion years later.

As far as everything being already decided... HOG WASH. PE has stated over, and over again. They are in EARLY PREPRODUCTION. They are still trying to figure everything out and NOTHING is written in stone. Things can and will change. So this thread is not irrelevant, it is vital community feedback that is important at this stage.

...and budgets can be adjusted as well as schedules, and often are.

And as far as physics goes... 3D space is nothing new or innovative to PC gaming. Realistic flight sims have been with us for decades and more recently games like EVE, Freelancer and SWG have executed 3D space. It is already being done.

PE better get on the stick with cutting edge technology because what they've got planned is late 20th century tech that they hope will compete in the year 2007 ( the 21st Century ). PE's competition won't cut them any slack and Trek fans don't play Trek games that suck.

ElevenThirtyOne

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 77

Report this Oct. 16 2005, 8:19 pm

Well put Keogh!

ElevenThirtyOne

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 77

Report this Oct. 27 2005, 9:52 am

Well you all heard the news hopefully its not too late to change PE's mind.

TookyG

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 25

Report this Oct. 27 2005, 10:23 am

Quote (ElevenThirtyOne @ Oct. 27 2005, 6:52 am)
Well you all heard the news hopefully its not too late to change PE's mind.

Well it's still early production so it's not too late to change the game but if PEs minds can be changed is another story.  2D movement in any space game is a travesty, there is no word for the disgust I am feeling regarding 2D movement in something as iconic as Star Trek.

I think PE believes that space combat should be like it was in TOS/TNG which was fairly 2D and not what it was in DS9 which was beautiful 3D combat (latter Dominion war anyone?) the way it's meant to be done in Star Trek.

Captain_James_Deckkard

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 68

Report this Oct. 27 2005, 4:54 pm

I realize this is old, but...

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