Keogh GROUP: Members POSTS: 602  |
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Aug. 17 2005, 10:16 am
| Quote (kimNO @ Aug. 16 2005, 12:59 pm) | i have heard only good of ww2 online, and dont know that game good enough for any comparison. But in ST canon, any rank above captain is an desk job, so half the ranks is typical "high command" type jobs, compared to WW2 online.
And and high command of admirals could coordinate an war, an funny idea, if someone want to be desktop coordinators and fleet commanders, making strategy, etc. But an ships command i belive is needed to be direct, or it wont really work out.
The field command lines got few ranks, and if players level up and get new rank, players arent following the guy with highest rank(an problem?), the reason i think flexibility is an good idea, this isnt an shoot em up with a bunch of riflemen, its a gang of players using an battleship or cruicer class size starship(ST films call enteprise an battlecruicer, in "search for spock").
It require actions done with an 10-20 seconds delay, or all go really bad. no time for any kinds of delay, it need an field command style of leadership, an direct action leader, as is present in PvP in most MMOs today with hardcore pvpers(they use 3. party voice chat programs).
That is my thoughts, based on the scetchy info we got. I may be wrong, of couse. All mmo's who exist today got players using teamchat as an way to organize leadership in pvp and raids, that is why id prefer an IN GAME teamspeak with mic, to avoid players needing to resort to an other company's software, all fleetcombat in eve use teamchat, for any who is serious, and in AO, they use it, wow use it, etc. since its superiour to any typing, quarrels and disagreements who otherwise would rip apart all is settled fast in an ok manner, etc. been in fleets in eve where 80 persons have used the program Teamspeak. And we got an single leader all is happy following, and some next commanders stepping in on day's he is gone. |
With regard to the RPG layer and immersion in WWIIOL, it works like this. Other than access to limited equipment, rank in and of it self has no bearing in that game unless you are operating within the "High Command" structure, which is voluntary. Within the structure, you are responsible for accomplishing your assigned (by your superior officer) mission and organizing and leading other players to achieve this. Be it a General or a Private, there is no level benefit for combat. It is completely skill based (but its not a twitch) game. Exploits and griefers are extremely rare and policed effectively. I did earn the eventual rank of General in WWIIOL. I was very much involved in the strategic efforts of the BEF (British Expeditionary Force), The Royal Air Force to be exact. At that level I was involved with R&D, logistics, and giving operational orders to my three Wing leaders. |
Hobei GROUP: Members POSTS: 151 |
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Aug. 17 2005, 10:21 am
Keogh, What you say seems in line with what the PE Admin has said Topic: How I think XP in STO will work. | Quote |
We have largely separated skill and experience. (they do remain tied together in some ways)
Experience gives you rank (excepting some key titles which also requires special missions or proven leadership).
Skill gives you additional abilities and perfection in those abilities.
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I plan to try WWIIOL after you pointed it out. |
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Keogh GROUP: Members POSTS: 602 |
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Aug. 17 2005, 11:40 am
WWIIOL and STO are still different. I'll try to clarify. The STO system still has your character gaining personal skill attributes over time, WWIIOL does not. The only thing that rank gives you in the game is access to some limited numbers of vehicles and a few special infantry weapons as you gradually gain rank.
Rank in WWIIOL does not help you shoot straighter, run faster or jump higher. In fact, it is impossible to "bunny hop" (Quake or CS style). Game physics, weapons and vehicles are modeled realistically.
In WWIIOL, a basic infantryman (Pvt) that knows how to lead his target or approach a target using available concealment can kill a General with one well placed shot. Just as a lower ranking pilot in an inferior plane can shoot down a senior pilot in a superior aircraft if that lower ranking pilot is a better pilot.
There are essentially no "levels" in WWIIOL. Rank only grants access to more equipment, not to skills or attributes. Rank only has real meaning if you voluntarily join the High Command system and participate in their campaigns and operations, which go on 24/7 365.
For the best experience. Find a "Squad" (they aren't called guilds) that is an active member of the High Command and join it.
You'll actually be given real mission objectives from real people, and your contribution will actually be meaningful to the overall war effort, on a front that spans from the coast of Holland to Switzerland. You'll be able to witness teamwork on an extreamly large scale, land, sea and air.
Cheers
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kimNO GROUP: Members POSTS: 195 |
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Aug. 17 2005, 2:29 pm
Hmm, an question is, if levels and skills are connected in STO, or its an other system, though my experience with an no level system is limited to EVE, where all just train skills in tree systems, with req for some skills to start training them.
The result of the EVE system is, players can train 24/7 for 10 years and still continue train skills(skills got an timer for training ,who ticks while offline), and still be able to participate in combat in PvP after an month.
I have always assumed STO is an game wher you start as an lvl 1, and level up and get skills, and certain levels got an rank. Maybe that is wrong? That link make me wonder.
When its talk about command lines, we speak of pilot, engineering crew, sick bay, targeting control,scanning, shield manipulation, transporters, and all squads of security people who is stationed in ship, those need an leadership structure, and an leader who direct them, in fast pace space combat. Im wondering how perpeptual will handle that. I dont think any mmo got an live action cruicer crew command lines, and certainly not battleship size command.
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buk1237 GROUP: Members POSTS: 250 |
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Aug. 17 2005, 2:45 pm
Everybody will have to follow orders however there probably wont be a really strict military type of thing going on.
*Also its spelt Marquis not Marqui
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RooMaGe GROUP: Members POSTS: 85 |
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Aug. 17 2005, 3:05 pm
Thanks for the spell check, I wasn't really sure about that. Also I made a mistake in the additional info underneath the subject line.
OOPS.
Nice to see some replies, and that quote from the Military Handbook was a very good resource and once Beta starts I'll try to follow that which it teaches.
I think that I would rather advance slowly, and really try to become part of a team (of a family as the crew in TNG became). I just hope that rank won't be linked to skills/stats.
I hope that to get certain skills or level of stats you don't have to be a certain level. This wouldn't make sence, Chief Obrian isn't a very high rank, but I would rather him down in engineering then some no-name L.T Commander.
Also Riker had the skills to be Captain several times over, but he remained on the Enterprise, so in effect it had two captains (by experience) in command which just plain rocks, especially if Riker had to take command (as he did on several occasions).
Hell, Data could have been a captain too, look at how much he rocked when he took command of that crappy Nebula Class with the backtalking 1st officer.
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Chaldean GROUP: Members POSTS: 726 |
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Aug. 17 2005, 5:05 pm
| Quote (buk1237 @ Aug. 17 2005, 12:45 pm) | Everybody will have to follow orders however there probably wont be a really strict military type of thing going on.
*Also its spelt Marquis not Marqui |
Actually it is spelled Maquis, not Marquis or Marqui. |
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RooMaGe GROUP: Members POSTS: 85 |
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Aug. 17 2005, 5:25 pm
LOL!  |
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buk1237 GROUP: Members POSTS: 250 |
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Aug. 17 2005, 5:58 pm
DAMN THAT BOOK Maquis!
Its a true story and theres a family with the surname Marquis and its really anoying cause i keep miss spelling it.
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backstept GROUP: Members POSTS: 3 |
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Aug. 17 2005, 6:12 pm
should be fun following orders
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Chaldean GROUP: Members POSTS: 726 |
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Aug. 17 2005, 7:15 pm
| Quote (RooMaGe @ Aug. 17 2005, 1:05 pm) | | Hell, Data could have been a captain too, look at how much he rocked when he took command of that crappy Nebula Class with the backtalking 1st officer. |
That episode should be mandatory viewing for command staff. In Gambit Part One, Worf (Acting First Officer) also backtalked Data, and Data had to call him to the carpet on it.  |
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Hobei GROUP: Members POSTS: 151 |
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Aug. 18 2005, 4:02 am
One of the comments by PE on the profession of captain is quite interesting. | Quote | *edited * We are not making command a true profession, every captain and admiral will be skilled in their original profession.
If they choose to be a crew member rather than a commander for the good of the ship, then so be it. Why would we stop them?
Now, if they continue to concentrate on the leadership skills and other command skills required for the higher ranks they will be missing out on the more technical skills. So, a truly advanced engineer would be a better choice if you wanted to maximize the skills of your ship's crew. |
Captain will not be a standalone profession. It will be a possiable choice when you become sufficently experienced in one other profession. So I can imagine that after this game has been out for some time, a player controlled ship will have a large number of people that have 'some' command experience/skill, but continuing to specialise in their area of interest and 1 or two people who want to be a full time captain and can share that role. aka your analogy with Picard & Riker. |
phlux GROUP: Members POSTS: 12 |
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Aug. 20 2005, 9:57 am
What could you do if some one disobeyed orders? Have them forcibly thrown in the brig? Restricted to their quarters? Or shout at them till they log-off :P
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IanCrawford GROUP: Members POSTS: 2984 |
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Aug. 20 2005, 10:47 am
i love rpg's, following orders and role playing as a member of a crew is a very exciting prospect!
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Treaten GROUP: Members POSTS: 100 |
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Aug. 20 2005, 11:41 am
I plan to follow orders. As we can see from the poll, the vast majority of people here are planning to do the same. Once STO has some real publicity, however, I'd expect a similar poll to show a large amount that want to set the orders, rather than recieve. Still, roleplaying is great fun.
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