Star Trek

Hey all!

Am I the only RolePlaying nerd who is actually looking forward to being given orders and following them out?

It's a dream of mine to be some L.T junior grade and have a commanding officer give me an order to saaaay clean a plasma manifold and I say "yes sir" and then do it, and do it well.

Eventually I become to "go to" junior officer, I'm known for being a good soldier. Promotions come slowly, I may even pass up a posting or two. All in the pursuit of duty and honour!

Am I the only one?

Quote (RooMaGe @ Aug. 15 2005, 8:46 pm)

Hey all! Am I the only RolePlaying nerd who is actually looking forward to being given orders and following them out? It's a dream of mine to be some L.T junior grade and have a commanding officer give me an order to saaaay clean a plasma manifold and I say "yes sir" and then do it, and do it well. Eventually I become to "go to" junior officer, I'm known for being a good soldier. Promotions come slowly, I may even pass up a posting or two. All in the pursuit of duty and honour! Am I the only one?

[QUOTE]

No you're probably not the only one who is looking forward to the potential to roleplay and take orders.  I will go out on a limn and say that such a group is probably a minority.  In my experience in many other MMOs, players in general don't like to be told what to do.  

In a guild or clan things tend to be different.  People are more willing to follow reasonable instructions.  However outside of a guild structure I have rarely found players who willingly submit to someone's lead.  It just rarely happens.  

You would probably say Aye Sir! in your example by the way.  In Naval Tradition you answer with an aye aye when given an order.

I know I like the idea! Thats what role playing servers are for I guess . Thats where I'll be.

Although I'd posted this on a previous thread, I felt it was fitting to post it here as well.

I thought I'd share these guidelines and quotes as a tool to use when assessing your leadership abilities or those of the person you follow.

Quote

"A leader is a person fitted by force of ideas, character, or genius, or by strength of will or administrative ability to arouse, incite, and direct men in conduct and achievement" "Leadership is the art of imposing one's will upon others in such a manner as to command their respect, their confidance, and their whole-hearted cooperation"                                                                                   LTC Keith Bonn, USA (Ret.) Army Officer's Guide Marine Corps Leadership Traits The 14 leadership traits are qualities of thought and action which, if demonstrated in daily activities, help Marines earn the respect, confidence, and loyal cooperation of other Marines. It is extremely important that you understand the meaning of each leadership trait and how to develop it, so you know what goals to set as you work to become a good leader and a good follower. JUSTICE Definition: Justice is defined as the practice of being fair and consistent. A just person gives consideration to each side of a situation and bases rewards or punishments on merit. Suggestions for Improvement: Be honest with yourself about why you make a particular decision. Avoid favoritism. Try to be fair at all times and treat all things and people in an equal manner. JUDGMENT Definition: Judgment is your ability to think about things clearly, calmly, and in an orderly fashion so that you can make good decisions. Suggestions for Improvement: You can improve your judgment if you avoid making rash decisions. Approach problems with a common sense attitude. DEPENDABILITY Definition: Dependability means that you can be relied upon to perform your duties properly. It means that you can be trusted to complete a job. It is the willing and voluntary support of the policies and orders of the chain of command. Dependability also means consistently putting forth your best effort in an attempt to achieve the highest standards of performance. Suggestions for Improvement: You can increase your dependability by forming the habit of being where you're supposed to be on time, by not making excuses and by carrying out every task to the best of your ability regardless of whether you like it or agree with it. INITIATIVE Definition: Initiative is taking action even though you haven't been given orders. It means meeting new and unexpected situations with prompt action. It includes using resourcefulness to get something done without the normal material or methods being available to you. Suggestions for Improvement: To improve your initiative, work on staying mentally and physically alert. Be aware of things that need to be done and then to do them without having to be told. DECISIVENESS Definition: Decisiveness means that you are able to make good decisions without delay. Get all the facts and weight them against each other. By acting calmly and quickly, you should arrive at a sound decision. You announce your decisions in a clear, firm, professional manner. Suggestions for Improvement: Practice being positive in your actions instead of acting half-heartedly or changing your mind on an issue. TACT Definition: Tact means that you can deal with people in a manner that will maintain good relations and avoid problems. It means that you are polite, calm, and firm. Suggestions for Improvement: Begin to develop your tact by trying to be courteous and cheerful at all times. Treat others as you would like to be treated. INTEGRITY Definition: Integrity means that you are honest and truthful in what you say or do. You put honesty, sense of duty, and sound moral principles above all else. Suggestions for Improvement: Be absolutely honest and truthful at all times. Stand up for what you believe to be right. ENTHUSIASM Definition: Enthusiasm is defined as a sincere interest and exuberance in the performance of your duties. If you are enthusiastic, you are optimistic, cheerful, and willing to accept the challenges. Suggestions for Improvement: Understanding and belief in your mission will add to your enthusiasm for your job. Try to understand why even uninteresting jobs must be done. BEARING Definition: Bearing is the way you conduct and carry yourself. Your manner should reflect alertness, competence, confidence, and control. Suggestions for Improvement: To develop bearing, you should hold yourself to the highest standards of personal conduct. Never be content with meeting only the minimum requirements. UNSELFISHNESS Definition: Unselfishness means that you avoid making yourself comfortable at the expense of others. Be considerate of others. Give credit to those who deserve it. Suggestions for Improvement: Avoid using your position or rank for personal gain, safety, or pleasure at the expensive of others. Be considerate of others. COURAGE Definition: Courage is what allows you to remain calm while recognizing fear. Moral courage means having the inner strength to stand up for what is right and to accept blame when something is your fault. Physical courage means that you can continue to function effectively when there is physical danger present. Suggestions for Improvement: You can begin to control fear by practicing self-discipline and calmness. If you fear doing certain things required in your daily life, force yourself to do them until you can control your reaction. KNOWLEDGE Definition: Knowledge is the understanding of a science or art. Knowledge means that you have acquired information and that you understand people. Your knowledge should be broad, and in addition to knowing your job, you should know your unit's policies and keep up with current events. Suggestions for Improvement: Suggestions for Improvement: Increase your knowledge by remaining alert. Listen, observe, and find out about things you don't understand. Study field manuals and other military literature. LOYALTY Definition: Loyalty means that you are devoted to your country, the Corps, and to your seniors, peers, and subordinates. The motto of our Corps is Semper Fidelis!, (Always Faithful). You owe unwavering loyalty up and down the chain of command, to seniors, subordinates, and peers. Suggestions for Improvement: To improve your loyalty you should show your loyalty by never discussing the problems of the Marine Corps or your unit with outsiders. Never talk about seniors unfavorably in front of your subordinates. Once a decision is made and the order is given to execute it, carry out that order willingly as if it were your own. ENDURANCE Definition: Endurance is the mental and physical stamina that is measured by your ability to withstand pain, fatigue, stress, and hardship. For example, enduring pain during a conditioning march in order to improve stamina is crucial in the development of leadership. Suggestions for Improvement: Develop your endurance by engaging in physical training that will strengthen your body. Finish every task to the best of your ability by forcing yourself to continue when you are physically tired and your mind is sluggish. Traits Of An Effective Leader Raymond Cattell ( Civilian or Business Model ) Emotional stability. Good leaders must be able to tolerate frustration and stress. Overall, they must be well-adjusted and have the psychological maturity to deal with anything they are required to face. Dominance. Leaders are often times competitive and decisive and usually enjoy overcoming obstacles. Overall, they are assertive in their thinking style as well as their attitude in dealing with others. Enthusiasm. Leaders are usually seen as active, expressive, and energetic. They are often very optimistic and open to change. Overall, they are generally quick and alert and tend to be uninhibited. Conscientiousness. Leaders are often dominated by a sense of duty and tend to be very exacting in character. They usually have a very high standard of excellence and an inward desire to do one's best. They also have a need for order and tend to be very self-disciplined. Social boldness. Leaders tend to be spontaneous risk-takers. They are usually socially aggressive and generally thick-skinned. Overall, they are responsive to others and tend to be high in emotional stamina. Tough-mindedness. Good leaders are practical, logical, and to-the-point. They tend to be low in sentimental attachments and comfortable with criticism. They are usually insensitive to hardship and overall, are very poised. Self-assurance. Self-confidence and resiliency are common traits among leaders. They tend to be free of guilt and have little or no need for approval. They are generally secure and free from guilt and are usually unaffected by prior mistakes or failures. Compulsiveness. Leaders were found to be controlled and very precise in their social interactions. Overall, they were very protective of their integrity and reputation and consequently tended to be socially aware and careful, abundant in foresight, and very careful when making decisions or determining specific actions. Beyond these basic traits, leaders of today must also possess traits which will help them motivate others and lead them in new directions. Leaders of the future must be able to envision the future and convince others that their vision is worth following. To do this, they must have the following personality traits: High energy. Long hours and some travel are usually a prerequisite for leadership positions, especially as your company grows. Remaining alert and staying focused are two of the greatest obstacles you will have to face as a leader. Intuitiveness. Rapid changes in the world today combined with information overload result in an inability to "know" everything. In other words, reasoning and logic will not get you through all situations. In fact, more and more leaders are learning to the value of using their intuition and trusting their "gut" when making decisions. Maturity. To be a good leader, personal power and recognition must be secondary to the development of your employees. In other words, maturity is based on recognizing that more can be accomplished by empowering others than can be by ruling others. Team orientation. Business leaders today put a strong emphasis on team work. Instead of promoting an adult/child relationship with their employees, leaders create an adult/adult relationship which fosters team cohesiveness. Empathy. Being able to "put yourself in the other person's shoes" is a key trait of leaders today. Without empathy, you can't build trust. And without trust, you will never be able to get the best effort from your employees. Charisma. People usually perceive leaders as larger than life. Charisma plays a large part in this perception. Leaders who have charisma are able to arouse strong emotions in their employees by defining a vision which unites and captivates them. Using this vision, leaders motivate employees to reach toward a future goal by tying the goal to substantial personal rewards and values.

Most of all, remember that crews will consist of online volunteers. You'll need to earn their trust and respect. Remember to lead by example and from the front.

I hope this may be helpful to some.

Cheers

I think those who are into role playing and following orders will join ships or fleets/guilds that follow that.

I would join a ship that was more strict about orders and I would want people on my ship or in my guild that followed orders.

Those who don't want to follow orders will probably solo more in the game or join/start ships were orders are not an issue with the captain.

Thats how I would do it anyways.

I think you all have a good idea. thoes who wish to play by them selfs will do so. and fly in small shuttles. thoes who can take orders and have a good leader and or guild/clan will fly in bigger team based ships. and probably have alot more fun over all.

I hope that an order's system is built into the game. And from the PE postings I have seen on the boards they suggest that there will be a order's system where by a player will gain some XP/bonus for following an order.

i.e. a order will translate into a mission/goal that another play has to complete. That player will get xp for completing the mission/goal within some parameters and the person placing the order will get some command xp.

Player's will follow orders because there is a carrot, not because there is a stick.

If you are interested, search for all postings by PerpetualAdmin on the boards. There is extra information and ideas about how Perpetual see the development of this game, not in the game.

If I have a spare few hours I might try and collect all their posting's onto a single topic.

I like the idea of getting XP for following orders. Even if its something small. XP will make people do a fair amount.

Or maybe you can get other rewards for following orders as well? Perhaps when you've done so and so many things..you get this or that, or get better at that and this?

Just an idea.

How can we build efficient crews without following orders?
Roleplaying will be the heart of this game (at least I hope so ).

Roleplaying servers rarely work in MMO's, but there just might be enough hardcore roleplayers here to make it work.  I will be in the conventional server, lemmie know how it goes.

an military chain of command never work that good in an mmo, without an leader, and then the leader end up making an command line, or org/clan do it, but it usually dont follow an "hardcoded" military command line, my experience show an voice chat system allow the best leader structure, actually, since ppl can discuss and get an solution who work best for all, communication seems to be the essence, and good leaders in an mmo i think follow much of the qualities found in the list posted, actually.

But im not shure its possible to make an 10 step officer chain of command in an mmo,i think its more realistic like this:

-all commanders of an crew reqruits crew, like Janeway did in Voyager, its of couse possible to arrange it in several ways, after the commanders wiches.
-The crewers ansver to their commander, and not to others of higher rank, the commander can maybe join an chain of command, though, but the local small crew got 1. priority in front of an 2. affiliated crew, in case of conflict.
-An admiral cant bully any casual ensign, but if its an ensign in an crew by the admiral, the ensign is free to resign, and can pick up his personal 1 man shuttle and go back to closest starbase.
-If an fleet division or an other kind of alliance is joined(alliance of orgs/clans), you will get an military structure, i think its best left to the structure to make the details, but i think an advanced team chat system is an huge advantage for this, like an over ride, high priority command messages and low priority casual chat, etc, so all got maybe 2 or 3 buttons for voice chat(as example), so an rookie captain can discuss casuality with his bridge crew, and be on an fleet chat, getting high command messages, and options to relay all messages to him alone, and "commander only" chat,"all in fleet" chat, etc.


And it should be some possible ways for pick up crews, remember, some may have an bad day, with most of his crews missing in org/clan, so an solo or 3 man mission in an small ship may be the only way to do something that day.

I do believe that a command structure could be succesfully implemented. It would not be completely free flow, but restricited by the game.

The person in command (captain, cheif engineer, tatical officer) would not be able to create free form command like. But rather you would have a list of possiable commands they could order. You would select the command they wish to be carried out, decide if they want to assign it to a particular station and then it would either appear as a personal mission for the person at that position, or be avaliable on some mission terminal, that anyone with access to that terminal can accept. Xp would be given to the person taking the mission & the person giving the mission if the mission is successfully completed.

If the game supports and provides mechanisums to allow commands to be issued, I am sure it will be possiable. Just most games don't allow for this, as there will be a large number of possiable commands that must be supported, especially when the enemy is PvP and unpredictable. However as our enemy if PvE, maybe it would be possiable to come up with such a list.

Player generated missions for others to take and accomplish, and a functional military chain of command in an MMO is possible and has been functioning successful for 5 years in WWII Online. The RPG layer in the game is interesting, it is not play acting at all, its more like an extension of your role within the army you serve, be it a Brigade Commander or that of a squadron leader or infantryman.

i have heard only good of ww2 online, and dont know that game good enough for any comparison. But in ST canon, any rank above captain is an desk job, so half the ranks is typical "high command" type jobs, compared to WW2 online.
And and high command of admirals could coordinate an war, an funny idea, if someone want to be desktop coordinators and fleet commanders, making strategy, etc. But an ships command i belive is needed to be direct, or it wont really work out.


The field command lines got few ranks, and if players level up and get new rank, players arent following the guy with highest rank(an problem?), the reason i think flexibility is an good idea, this isnt an shoot em up with a bunch of riflemen, its a gang of players using an battleship or cruicer class size starship(ST films call enteprise an battlecruicer, in "search for spock").
It require actions done with an 10-20 seconds delay, or all go really bad. no time for any kinds of delay, it need an field command style of leadership, an direct action leader, as is present in PvP in most MMOs today with hardcore pvpers(they use 3. party voice chat programs).
That is my thoughts, based on the scetchy info we got. I may be wrong, of couse. All mmo's who exist today got players using teamchat as an way to organize leadership in pvp and raids, that is why id prefer an IN GAME teamspeak with mic, to avoid players needing to resort to an other company's software, all fleetcombat in eve use teamchat, for any who is serious, and in AO, they use it, wow use it, etc. since its superiour to any typing, quarrels and disagreements who otherwise would rip apart all is settled fast in an ok manner, etc. been in fleets in eve where 80 persons have used the program Teamspeak. And we got an single leader all is happy following, and some next commanders stepping in on day's he is gone.

I will certainly be on the roleplay servers, too.  I will follow orders unless I disagree with them severely for some moral reason, and will make my best effort to be a good leader when I am in command.