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Do you believe in evolution?

SnareMan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 111

Report this Jul. 24 2005, 10:34 pm

personally, I don't believe in it but I got attacked in the Ten Forward forum because I believe in God.

TourqeGlare

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POSTS: 4719

Report this Jul. 24 2005, 10:38 pm

I have problems with humans being formed from dirt :logical:
but Moby says "We are all made of stars"
refering to pysics and space and crap, so Im 50/50 :)

TheUniqueDrone

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POSTS: 21

Report this Jul. 25 2005, 7:31 am

I believe in God, or at least I am a bit spiritual, but I also believe in a rational universe that operates by strict physical laws, and I don't see why God couldn't have used evolution to create all the life we see around us, (I mean, God is God, right?).

Invader_Wishfire

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 27518

Report this Jul. 25 2005, 8:35 am

Quote (SnareMan @ July 24 2005, 7:34 pm)
personally, I don't believe in it but I got attacked in the Ten Forward forum because I believe in God.

Don't feel bad. People on either side will get attacked by the other. If your say evolution is true, the Creationists will ram their beliefs down your throat. If you say you believe in divine creation, Evolutionists will ram their beliefs down your throat. It's a no-win situation. A Kobayashi Maru.  :laugh:

Personally, I believe that God created the process of evolution, so that both creation and evolution are correct.

TourqeGlare

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POSTS: 4719

Report this Jul. 25 2005, 12:57 pm

Quote (wishfire @ July 25 2005, 5:35 am)
Personally, I believe that God created the process of evolution, so that both creation and evolution are correct.

Thats something we should agree on.  :)

lanceromega

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POSTS: 3859

Report this Jul. 25 2005, 1:08 pm

Quote (SnareMan @ July 24 2005, 7:34 pm)
personally, I don't believe in it but I got attacked in the Ten Forward forum because I believe in God.

Wow you believe in god :O Just kidding, the problem is not whether you believe in god or not, it whether you think believing in god entitle you to ignore science.

Evolution is a theory, whether it correct or not, doesnot really matter. All theories are just model of physical processes that scientist use.

It very likely a future scientific discovery will create a new theory that is more accurate and useable and some other theory will take it place, but creationism is not a scientific theory.

It because fundamental christian want it to be taught in school where the conflict come in.

Creation theory depends on not only Evolution being incorrect, but also Einstein theory of relativity ( which is as rock solid as any theory can be without be call a law), and the Atomic theory dealing with radiactive decay. This is a much to much to ask for.

Without any kind of experimental proof Creation theory is not a true theory, and it make no prediction that scientic and conduct experiments to test the foundation of the theory.

Invader_Wishfire

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 27518

Report this Jul. 25 2005, 1:27 pm

Quote (lanceromega @ July 25 2005, 10:08 am)
It very likely a future scientific discovery will create a new theory that is more accurate and useable and some other theory will take it place, but creationism is not a scientific theory.

I don't think there'll be a new theory, I think evolution is the answer, but I am quite sure that future scientific studies and process will result in the theory of evolution being updated, amended, and, all in all, improved upon.

lanceromega

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POSTS: 3859

Report this Jul. 25 2005, 3:01 pm

Quote (wishfire @ July 25 2005, 10:27 am)
Quote (lanceromega @ July 25 2005, 10:08 am)
It very likely a future scientific discovery will create a new theory that is more accurate and useable and some other theory will take it place, but creationism is not a scientific theory.

I don't think there'll be a new theory, I think evolution is the answer, but I am quite sure that future scientific studies and process will result in the theory of evolution being updated, amended, and, all in all, improved upon.

Actually there are many competing scientific theories that have been put forward along with many question that evolution doesnot seem to handle too well. Remember Evolution as set forward by darwin, had no knowledge of DNA and the various processes involved and because of this it is incomplete.

I doubt that evolution is the finally word on the matter, but we do know that creation theory is not a scientific theory.

It seem that other scientific fields such as game theory and Cell automation is helping us a better under standing how individual genes can interact to give advance helpful genetic traits.

Molecule Biology is looking into the actual mechanism of DNA and RNA.

So it doubful that evolution theory as it presently stand is a final theory on the processs, just like Newton theory of gravity wasn't the final theory on Gravity.

jtk2jlp

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POSTS: 709

Report this Jul. 25 2005, 4:01 pm

Quote (lanceromega @ July 25 2005, 10:08 am)
It because fundamental christian want it to be taught in school where the conflict come in.

Public schools.  Whatever you do with your own money is none of my business.  I just don't want you spending my money on your religion.  That is why America has the 1st Amendment.

Creationism can be devided into two categories.  Young-earth:  their is scientific proof for the literal interpretation of Genesis 1 or the whole bible for that matter.  And Old-earth:  that Genesis was symbolic but not untrue and the theory of evolution and the big bang are represented in the Bible.

I am not the person to ask about whether there is a God or whether he created the universe.  I have only been studying this subject (evolution) for a little over a year I suppose.  There are many other highly experience geneticist and biologists you can ask.

I just believe that there is a more reasonable answer to this question than I being that created the universe.

SnareMan, try rephrasing the topic to make less political.
Consider Explanation of Darwin and other related theories or I have a problem with Evolution and would like to discuss.

You might get a better answer.

Oh, and try to avoid Ten Forward.  It mostly consist of cynical and evil people.

SnareMan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 111

Report this Jul. 25 2005, 4:53 pm

I don't mean to jump on toes here (apparently that's what I did in Ten Forward) but evolution, to me and a lot of other  rational, highly educated scientists, is not science. Think about it. Puddle of goo -> fish -> whale -> ape ->human. I know it might be kindof cool to bleieve that we have been changing over millions of years, but its even cooler to feel the presence of an almighty God. I'm not being a nut, either. I have the mind of a scientist, and I'm not crazy. God is real. The science is there. If you just believe in Him, it make Perfect sense. I assume that the majority of the pro-evolutionists are liberals, right? be open-minded, like you all are. Check it out. Go to church, see what its like. ABout the ape-men that have been discovered (like skeletons, etc.) I would like to point out that souch incidences such Nebraska Man, Austrolopithicus Man, and Piltdown Man have all been proven forgeries. I believe one was based on nothing more than a pig tooth, and they found a Neanderthal Man buried in chain mail armour, which would implicate a middle age appearence (there was a disease; I forget what its called, but it has to do with the lack of oxygen towards the brain and a malfunction of the endocrine system.) Sorry if I offended you that believe in evolution; I'm just presenting you another view. To other Christians, please reply; I'd like to hear from you all.

lanceromega

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POSTS: 3859

Report this Jul. 25 2005, 6:38 pm

Quote (SnareMan @ July 25 2005, 1:53 pm)
I don't mean to jump on toes here (apparently that's what I did in Ten Forward) but evolution, to me and a lot of other rational, highly educated scientists, is not science. Think about it. Puddle of goo -> fish -> whale -> ape ->human. I know it might be kindof cool to bleieve that we have been changing over millions of years, but its even cooler to feel the presence of an almighty God. I'm not being a nut, either. I have the mind of a scientist, and I'm not crazy. God is real. The science is there. If you just believe in Him, it make Perfect sense. I assume that the majority of the pro-evolutionists are liberals, right? be open-minded, like you all are. Check it out. Go to church, see what its like. ABout the ape-men that have been discovered (like skeletons, etc.) I would like to point out that souch incidences such Nebraska Man, Austrolopithicus Man, and Piltdown Man have all been proven forgeries. I believe one was based on nothing more than a pig tooth, and they found a Neanderthal Man buried in chain mail armour, which would implicate a middle age appearence (there was a disease; I forget what its called, but it has to do with the lack of oxygen towards the brain and a malfunction of the endocrine system.) Sorry if I offended you that believe in evolution; I'm just presenting you another view. To other Christians, please reply; I'd like to hear from you all.

Quote
but evolution, to me and a lot of other  rational, highly educated scientists, is not science.


Like who? are you a scientist and in what field?

I'm  highly rational and most scientist will tell that evolution is scientific but the theory is far from perfect.

Quote
would like to point out that souch incidences such Nebraska Man, Austrolopithicus Man, and Piltdown Man have all been proven forgeries.


which other scientists proved them to be forgeries... Not a priest or a minister...

Quote
I assume that the majority of the pro-evolutionists are liberals, right? be open-minded, like you all are. Check it out. Go to church, see what its like


And the Majority of anti evolutionists are closed minded and republican? So if the tell the liberal to go to church can I tell you to go to college and get a degree in Biology. What good for the goose is good for the Gander...

I can see now that the assault on you were not due to you being a christian, instead it was due to your view that  evolution is wrong due to the fact it doesnot jive with the bible account of creation. Stop trying to gather support using oh they are picking on me cause I am a good christian.

SnareMan

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POSTS: 111

Report this Jul. 25 2005, 7:10 pm

i look forward to debating the biology teacher. And no, republicans are not close-minded, and I'm not republican. I'm independednt, and I am not a scientist, I have been taught to think like one. And the almighty God I'm referring to is not just any god. Had it been anyother god, it wouldn't be spelled God. I'm talking about God, the father of Jesus. And no, I'm not just trying to disprove evolution with the bible. I'm just trying to expose evoltuion and the lack of evidence thereof. www.answersingenesis.com has the answers, and it's real science. It fits. I don't understand those who say it is amusing. They pick-and-choose believing. Oh well. I don't want to argue. We're not here for that. This is Star Trek.com. We're here to talk about Trek. What am I thinking. We all like Trek, don't we. Except I don't dig "The Chase" [TNG].

lanceromega

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POSTS: 3859

Report this Jul. 25 2005, 7:40 pm

Quote (SnareMan @ July 25 2005, 4:10 pm)
i look forward to debating the biology teacher. And no, republicans are not close-minded, and I'm not republican. I'm independednt, and I am not a scientistI,  have been taught to think like one. And the almighty God I'm referring to is not just any god. Had it been anyother god, it wouldn't be spelled God. I'm talking about God, the father of Jesus. And no, I'm not just trying to disprove evolution with the bible. I'm just trying to expose evoltuion and the lack of evidence thereof. www.answersingenesis.com has the answers, and it's real science. It fits. I don't understand those who say it is amusing. They pick-and-choose believing. Oh well. I don't want to argue. We're not here for that. This is Star Trek.com. We're here to talk about Trek. What am I thinking. We all like Trek, don't we. Except I don't dig "The Chase" [TNG].

QUOTE]i look forward to debating the biology teacher. And no, republicans are not close-minded[/QUOTE]

And he will rip you apart, I done so against creational myself when they attempted to get agenda push on my school board
and the second part was me being satirical :eyesroll:

[QUOTE}I have been taught to think like one.[/QUOTE]

Doubt it or you would understand the different between faith and science.  :eyesroll:

:eyesroll:

Quote
I'm just trying to expose evoltuion and the lack of evidence thereof. www.answersingenesis.com has the answers, and it's real science.


Real science is what done in labs or out in the field not what posted on web pages.. Hell I can lead you to a thousand crank science web site with all kind of scientific sounding ideas, but it aint science..

Like you and the Creational supporters they preach how conventional science is wrong, and how they got the answer. They post stories of anomalies or event that show that they are right and like the creationalist they fail to show any research or experiment that back their ideas.

You want to prove evolution wrong, go to college, get a degree in biology and show experimental proof that the bible is correct, then you have an agruement. Many have already tried the problem is that blind faith cannot replace science, Science has been too successful.

As for lack of evident, boy are you wrong. Most of the work on modern biology dealing with genetic is base on Evolution, until creation theory can match that accomplishment it doesnot have a leg to stand on..

PuffTrek

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POSTS: 369

Report this Jul. 25 2005, 8:07 pm

God Damn Lancer, I just love reading your posts.....you mentioned YOUR school board...are you a teacher or a professor? or just a parent? No matter what, I wish I had you for a teacher during high school....would have made things much more easier...

(NOTE I'm pulling the below numbers out of my head from memory so they might be incorrect)
A question for you lancer.... have you read or heard of the 12th planet, a book by Zacharias Strichken (or something like that) particulary the first 5 or 6 chapters...he said that we took Millions of years to go from apes to Man-apes....and only like the span of 50000 years to go from Man apes, to men living in Colonies at around 5000BC, to me this seems to be contorary to evolution, and implies a certain hand that pushed us up the evolutionary ladder, be it god or some extresterial being...what do you think of this, have you ever heard of anything like this?

jtk2jlp

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 709

Report this Jul. 26 2005, 12:58 am

Quote (SnareMan @ July 25 2005, 4:10 pm)
i look forward to debating the biology teacher. And no, republicans are not close-minded, and I'm not republican. I'm independednt, and I am not a scientist, I have been taught to think like one. And the almighty God I'm referring to is not just any god. Had it been anyother god, it wouldn't be spelled God. I'm talking about God, the father of Jesus. And no, I'm not just trying to disprove evolution with the bible. I'm just trying to expose evoltuion and the lack of evidence thereof. www.answersingenesis.com has the answers, and it's real science. It fits. I don't understand those who say it is amusing. They pick-and-choose believing. Oh well. I don't want to argue. We're not here for that. This is Star Trek.com. We're here to talk about Trek. What am I thinking. We all like Trek, don't we. Except I don't dig "The Chase" [TNG].

I would encourage you to start topics one by one on answersingenesis. Ask relevant questions about the theory of evolution. But I don't think they will hold up. Like Lancer said evolution may not be a solid theory but at least it is scientific.

Have you ever heard of Newton. His theories on gravity were profound. But guess what? Einstein came around in 1915 and said that Newton's theory didn't hold up when under the effects of a large gravitational field and at velocities approaching C.

Does that mean Newton was wrong? No, Einstein merely added to the pool of knowlege. We still use Newton's theories to put things in orbit around Mars.

So will the same be for Evolution. Darwin knew squat about genetics. Darwin simply put forth a theory that agreed with observations. But did genetics destroy Darwin's theory?
No! It simply added to what we know about the universe.

There are many problem with all of today's theories (Darwin's theory of evolution and even Einstein's theory of general relativity), but hardworking scientists will deal with these problems in a timely and rational manner.

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