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Thinking vs Hand-Eye coordination?

Mountainforest

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 128

Report this Jun. 22 2005, 6:25 am

So you say as soon someones chooses the command path he cannot further develop his profession skills? Well, I think that would be far less fun then still giving him this possibility if he wants to change back to his profession, but that's just my opinion.

And I really hate the idea of the captain taking over the jobs of his senior officers. I don't want a captain running up and down from the bridge and engineering to do all the repair jobs and leave the chief engineer without. Or a captain creating a mission and then switching to security to lead the mission instead of the security mission. Cormoran, if you don't want this sort of stuff to happen, don't make it possible. If you make it possible, it will happen

This system will BTW still allow you to play together with your friends, given the position you want is free.

Cormoran

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1609

Report this Jun. 22 2005, 8:07 am

Quote (Mountainforest @ June 22 2005, 9:25 pm)
So you say as soon someones chooses the command path he cannot further develop his profession skills? Well, I think that would be far less fun then still giving him this possibility if he wants to change back to his profession, but that's just my opinion.

And I really hate the idea of the captain taking over the jobs of his senior officers. I don't want a captain running up and down from the bridge and engineering to do all the repair jobs and leave the chief engineer without. Or a captain creating a mission and then switching to security to lead the mission instead of the security mission. Cormoran, if you don't want this sort of stuff to happen, don't make it possible. If you make it possible, it will happen

This system will BTW still allow you to play together with your friends, given the position you want is free.

your first paragraph is symantics, with that system you still have a captain doing the duties of lower ranked officers, the very thing you're so against.

The second paragraph i have already dealt with, i told you that if a player has a problem with it they can tell the CO or they can leave. That's no different than a guild leader in any other MMO hording the rewards, they'll only upset the other players and end up with no crew to command.

Also when it comes to senior officers it's likely they'll be better at the job than the captain, i'd imagine it'd take quite a bit of playing to reach a senior officer position.

Disallowing the captain to do these things is unrealistic in my view, it'd be great for comraderie for the captain to be able to jump back and help out with his old profession every now and then, it's not like the captain is going to be commanding the ship from engineering or anything.

Nothing need be forced, the captain might decide to ASK the senior officer if they can help out and the senior officer may WANT them to, but they simply cannot if you disallow it outright.

I never said i didn't wan't this sort of stuff to happen, it's great if you ask me.

In my opinion this is a player issue first and foremost, it's somewhat like a guild and as such the members themselves make up the rules. You might find a ship which who's rules adhere to canon as close as possible and the captain only ever does captain stuff or you might enjoy a more laid back environment where people have more choice in what they do with their skills.

Kinneas

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1877

Report this Jun. 22 2005, 9:14 am

Mornin'.
Man. Lotta work there guys. You covered a lot of ground.

I agree with Ellesar that the point of a game...the point of creating a historic, award winning 'game' does at it's heart rely on how it brings familiy, friends and now...the world community together.

I read so much I'm not sure who said what but someone said: "The TC ships allow you that."

I agree.

It's why I suggested the 'tour' option long ago. So you can just hop on with your family after dinner...and do something cool.
This kinds of 'subscription' as I initially suggested did not give these players the same kind of ranking, experience or benefits of having to go through the grind of the Academy if they just sign on for the first time and want to skip all the BS and just go do something cool.

Fine. But they are 'not' Academy Grads. These are just the folks who want the joy of STO arcade and want it without the daily Sim life yadda yadda or the deeply educational and technical aspects to develop a character.

It's why I suggest thinking about subscription types once more to solve these problems.

----
Captains visiting stations: If you make captain and take out a TC ship on a 3 month mission. You should be able to 'be' any crew member at any station at any time (Dungeonkeeper-esque).

PC Ship captains 'roaming'. If he's the captain and I'm anywhere and he comes to visit me! :) WOOHOO. It's 'his' ship. I'm just a hand trying to shine so one day I make a good captain. I hope that I do my job so well that he does not have to tell me what to do and just came to hang out and have coffee because we are friends. But if he does 'get in my face' and tells me to do something his way...hellyes I am going to do it his way. It's his ship. :salute!:

MY PC Ship. I go where I want, when I want and if you love your job I'm never going to have anything to say other than "I love you!" "Have some extra replicator credits.". If we get into a pinch and you screw up...expect to hear about it! If I screw up. I rely on you as you do now to put me in my place.
-----------------------

You all know that I want every man, woman and child on the planet to be able to get on STO and do something. You also know that the fan I represent is the ultra canon, ultra technical fan while Ellesar represents the other.

I hope we see that STO could be big enough to have multiple approcahes to gameplay that will satisfy all.

Once more I propose you look at the subscription types to address different fan types. I believe STO could be so powerful and so big that there is enough room and enough ways to solve these problems.

Starski

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 427

Report this Jun. 22 2005, 9:50 am

Let me ask a simple question...

How many "other" Star Trek games have people here played that you had to do some learning but did not have to know how a photon toredo is assembled to play and enjoy the game?

I would assume that a large majority of people here would mention a few different games.

It's not about your real life knowledge and knowing the ins and outs of canon but rather enjoying the "game" that is to be STO. Sure there is a certain level that people will need to learn but it does not need to be a job to learn the game. Any game that turns players into workers ultimately looses the player base quickly. Being a gamer and playing a game is suppose to be enjoyable and for fun not work.

Kinneas

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1877

Report this Jun. 22 2005, 10:18 am

Thats why I say, with subscription types: "You get your game....we get ours...and we never ever have to see each other."

Because 'working' and living on a Starship is what I do want to do and that is fun to me.

If you choose to be a playing character and part of a fleet you have no choice but to eventually learn it all to get promoted. You not knowing how something works IS hand in hand with you getting higher ranks.
(S.I.N.S. example)

If you just want 'arcade STO" hop in a holodeck on a pay to play basis and have at it.

But people who decide they want to be in STO for the LONG haul...should not cry about how hard it gets at all and that we here are making every possible effort to bend over backwards for the 'arcade, non-technical gamers and come up with solutions for them.

Cormoran

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1609

Report this Jun. 22 2005, 11:03 am

I'd find it hilarious if perpetual made a fully working canon model of a ship, turned on the warp core then watched it explode into tiny pieces.

In the end all that one needs to know is the actual game mechanics.

I think of it this way, i learn karate, one of my mates buys alot of fighting games, in reality i could easily shatter his limbs within seconds. Now when he kicks my arse in mortal kombat he doesn't know he just finished me off with a mawashi geri, but he does know he had to press triangle, circle, circle, square to do it. He has no canon knowledge yet he has complete mastery of game mechanics, all the canon info in the universe can't make up for knowing the game itself. About the only way i can win is if i whip out a bo and smack him across the head thus rendering him unconscious for the remainder of the game.

Starski

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 427

Report this Jun. 22 2005, 11:28 am

Quote (Cormoran @ June 22 2005, 8:03 am)
I'd find it hilarious if perpetual made a fully working canon model of a ship, turned on the warp core then watched it explode into tiny pieces.

In the end all that one needs to know is the actual game mechanics.

First things first I think they would build one and blow it up just for the entertainment value! hehe

Exactly right. What a person really needs to learn in the game mechanics. I think there is a happy medium that can be found. I don't want a point and shot game but I don't want to have a calculator and engineering paper sitting next to me so that in the next 20 minutes of combat I can make sure that I am not over powering my conduit repair tool when repairing a conduit bank in engineering. I doubt that most people want to learn the different techniques to reseting a broken bone in order to fix a persons broken arm.

It is all about knowing how to play the game. But it doesn't mean that a person shouldn't learn that this tool is going to be needed for this task.

I think the original idea that was posted here was the fact that a challenge is wanted in game rather then a point and click. Something that actually makes you think rather then just simply react. This can be acheived without turning it into a total technical game.

Tal_Shiar_Officer

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1652

Report this Jun. 22 2005, 1:47 pm

A person has to learn game mechanics, I agree with that. Now I want to get back to promotions.

I don't want players to feel obliged to become a captain just to go up in rank, Ellessar. While I could live with a ship full of captains, I would rather have people making more realistic choices. I just had a thought which may end up working out the best, though.

When one is offered a promotion to captain, they will be able to decline it. Once they accept, though, the penalty is that they can no longer learn non-command skills. So, the moment I am a captain, I am dedicated to learning command skills. If I cannot use them, then too bad for me, as I have thrown away something very important. Captains will be able to request a demotion, though. Once demoted, they will again be able to learn profession skills.

This is the best comprimise I have right now. It discourages people from becoming captain willy-nilly, making the role best-suited for people who want command of a starship. They can still rely on their old skills from time to time, and may even be able to work a lower position, but they wouldn't be able to do that full-time since they will never be upgrading their skills there. So people who really want to stick with their professions have strong reasons NOT to become captains.

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