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Why I just quit World of WarCraft

xcalpro

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 103

Report this Jun. 03 2005, 9:29 am

My 2 cents... A simple solution:  Real time leveling...
A way to balance the leveling and advancement is to make it real time. Eve Online has the right idea. Many MMOs rely on grinding to advance, so a player can spend hours online grinding and then level. If leveling required real time events this would balance things out. If it would take your character a few days of training or travel to get from point A to point B then it wouldn't matter if you spent 10 hrs or 10 minutes online..

One of the great things about webbased MMO games like Alien Assault Traders is players are paced by the number of turns they have per day. This of course doesn't work with current graphical MMORPGS, but the fact that players have to wait for something to happen regardless if they are logged in or not can make a big difference.

ShockTroop

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POSTS: 155

Report this Jun. 03 2005, 9:42 am

I just don't like the idea of a paced game.  Maybe some parts of the game would be okay this way, but not a whole game where character progression is throttled.

Xenesis

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1448

Report this Jun. 03 2005, 11:17 am

Quote (xcalpro @ June 03 2005, 9:29 am)
My 2 cents... A simple solution: Real time leveling...
A way to balance the leveling and advancement is to make it real time. Eve Online has the right idea. Many MMOs rely on grinding to advance, so a player can spend hours online grinding and then level. If leveling required real time events this would balance things out. If it would take your character a few days of training or travel to get from point A to point B then it wouldn't matter if you spent 10 hrs or 10 minutes online..

One of the great things about webbased MMO games like Alien Assault Traders is players are paced by the number of turns they have per day. This of course doesn't work with current graphical MMORPGS, but the fact that players have to wait for something to happen regardless if they are logged in or not can make a big difference.

That system also has it's problems, anyone who starts it immediately will have an advantage over others than start after them, especially when someone starts a year or more after them.

Those new players will never be able to catch up to those first players until they stop playing and stop advancing in more skills, or until they reach the max amount of skills they can learn. Even so, the year behind player would still need a year to catch up.

Is that better? Being handicap for a year or being able to powerlevel a month and catch up to the first players?

Ortus_Sapienta

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POSTS: 1468

Report this Jun. 03 2005, 11:34 pm

The other point not made about the Eve system is not all skills are easy to come by. Some are loot, some cost billions of Isk, others cant be learned until you meet various pre-requisites.

I could be a brand new newbie and by some weird coincidence find the Titan class skill set. I wouldnt be able to use it for weeks while I trained all the pre-req's.

~Ortus

Kinneas

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1877

Report this Jun. 04 2005, 12:40 am

You just took a Plasma hit under range 12 and your ship is no longer space worthy.

Your main computer just crapped out but you have manual control.

You have NO choice but to put the ship into an Emergency orbit 'manually', AND adjust your shields so your crew does not die from a wave of intense radiation when entering that particular planet. You have to hold the ship in the proper orbit while engineering beam down crews and lifeboats are launched.

You've played a hundred hours and never bothered to read the actual technical data on emergency situations because the computer has always been able to just establish the proper orbits.

You or your Flight Control officer going to be able to do that? Is your engineer qualified to deal with the shields correctly...will you?

So you see. Unlike a hack and slash game or a FPS booster to help you Star Trek in a lot of ways demands you KNOW the proper answer.

Perhaps one would be getting an education in life in space rather than a grind.

I know I for sure as heck support the option for the computer to go down and you have to be able to handle emergency situations manually.
-------------------

You engage an enemy and he is using ECM. What do you do to gain a tactical advantage?
What is the best angle of attack?
At what range should you never try and fire an overloaded photon. What kind of damage will you be looking at?
What is the minimum safe distance to stay from a singularity engine that is about to blow?
----
Sure the ships computers may be able to help you to some degree. But this relys on your or your crew knowing the answer...not it.

No level of rank is going to automatically put your ship at the minimum safe distance or prevent your Flight officer from flying in to distance 6 when the you give the order to fire an overloaded Photon.

Your computer may not tell the flight officer he's going too fast and wasting energy for shields and that he should drop his speed to 1/3 impulse or less, deploy a wild weasel, shut down all but the port shield, divert the extra power to max out ECM, engage erratic maneuvers, Kill all defensive firing weapons and non-facing weapons, drop the recharge rate of the Photons to nil, kill all power to tractors, and prepare to take that plasma hit that will send you into that emergency orbit situation because you didn't know good enough to stay out past range 21.

IMO overcoming situations like the above should earn you your ranks...not time in.

Ortus_Sapienta

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POSTS: 1468

Report this Jun. 04 2005, 12:50 am

Quote (Kinneas @ June 04 2005, 12:40 am)
>>Bunch of Stuff a la Kinneas<<

 IMO overcoming situations like the above should earn you your ranks...not time in.

Thats fine. Ive never been against Rank on Merit, granted it would either require the crew to commend each other (open for exploits that one) or the GM's to watch everyone (can you say manpower?).

If it could be organised, then thats fine. Rank by merit sounds close enough to the actual way of gaining rank to be all nice.

However the skills, they should still require time to obtain, practice and hone.

Saving the ship from certain doom can bump you up out of the Ensigns slot, but thats not to say you know what comes of your new rank. You have to ply your skills, learn your new role. No one reaches Captain on merit alone.

~Ortus

Kinneas

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POSTS: 1877

Report this Jun. 04 2005, 1:36 am

I know what you mean. :)

(imo) I wouldn't send a fresh cadet into the holodeck on his first day or for a captain to deal with those situations after getting their first commission (Some of the most worthy could).

(imo) It'd be nice to demand that kind of quality from the Academy...but it's better that folks be eased in.
Nice slow tow duties, scan duties, diplomatic missions, patrols, small fights...long before they have to deal with the big risk situations. There may come a time when you have to prove you and your crew are worthy of their salt though.
Reaching the 20th level in STO could 'mean something'. Not because you have 'haxor armor +100' and a 'Phaser of All Your Base Are Belong to Us'. You'll be elite...and 'you' will have done it. Not a booster.

Ortus_Sapienta

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POSTS: 1468

Report this Jun. 04 2005, 3:27 am

Rank by merit would also assist the PC/Npc ship divide at the start.

In the beginning there wont be any PC ships as we wont have any Captains, but outstanding perfomance as well as having the appropriate skills on an NPC ship would put you up for the promotion. That would give NPC ships the ability to enter rough space and have no fear as there would be a great crew waiting to leap to the ships aid, above the call of duty.
NPC ships would still perform their normal scientific/exploration duties allowing other character classes to distinguish themselves.

As otherwise I dont see why an NPC captained ship would ever take a risk.

While you mention the Academy, I wonder if you score highly in your courses (whatever they may be depending on the form our newbie training takes) do you get the Valedictorian perk of choosing your first assignment?

~Ortus

Kinneas

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POSTS: 1877

Report this Jun. 04 2005, 6:45 am

That would be interesting for sure.
It sure would be neat if it really felt like Starfleet had a vested interest in you.

This is one of the hardest things I first started asking for, IMO.

With that many people going through it, how do you put those extra personal touches on it to make someone who does really well at any time in the game?

At one point I figured they would have enough money from this project that they could hire a Staff to 'be' Starfleet Command.
If they end up linking this into the television show...they could do it. A whole call and data center dedicated to being SFC. To manage media, advertising, technical problems, to send out real video messaages/missions.

A whole staff dedicated to running the online, televised, 'theme park' that could be STO. :) ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Ellessar

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POSTS: 1848

Report this Jun. 04 2005, 6:53 am

Quote (Kinneas @ June 03 2005, 10:36 pm)
I know what you mean.  :)  

(imo) I wouldn't send a fresh cadet into the holodeck on his first day or for a captain to deal with those situations after getting their first commission (Some of the most worthy could).  

(imo)  It'd be nice to demand that kind of quality from the Academy...but it's better that folks be eased in.
  Nice slow tow duties, scan duties, diplomatic missions, patrols, small fights...long before they have to deal with the big risk situations.  There may come a time when you have to prove you and your crew are worthy of their salt though.
  Reaching the 20th level in STO could 'mean something'.  Not because you have 'haxor armor +100' and a 'Phaser of All Your Base Are Belong to Us'.  You'll be elite...and 'you' will have done it.  Not a booster.

[QUOTE]

As I just said in a previous thread.  Hero's Journey, an upcomming MMO, is doing just that.  They are creating a game to be pretty much based only on story driven content.  They have a team of GMs whose only job is to create story driven quests and live events for players.

Now, the idea is similar to your SFC who would be creating missions.  However, there are two problems right now.  

One, the Hero's Journey idea is untested.  It may turn out to be a hit.  THen again it may turn out to be a flop.  THey may not have a large enough GM staff to reach a lrage enough audience to keep people interested and they may not be able to afford a larger GM staff.

Two, Hero's Journey is going about this story driven GM idea at the expense of normal MMO ideas.  THey are essentially doing little else aside from story quests.  Hero's Journey is going to be a very niche game.  STO needs to have boader appeal.  STO cannot simplu focus on story missons.  It is clear ST fans want more than just good story.  So STO might not be able to adopt such an idea because of cost.

Don't get me wrong, I think its a great idea and I hope Hero's Journey is a success so others try the idea as well.  My only fears are that it is too costly.

Kinneas

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POSTS: 1877

Report this Jun. 04 2005, 9:03 am

The good thing is, you just smile at any engineer from IBM and say you want them to help with Star Trek Online and watch em smile a mile wide.

  Tried and tested:  IBM is not only poised, it's got the tools to put it all in place. They and their associates know it will work because they have given us everything we already use. :)  It'll work as well as the subscribers could want imo.

 Money:  Yeah I wish those folks luck.  But a game without a history is going to be a hard sell to folks who want their brand names.  
  The good news is Star Trek is one of the biggest brand names in history.  With the tools availabe to leverage the entirety of the fan base, some financial predictions for STO jump straight up and off the page at the moment it releases. :)   Making any financial questions about being able to support a full time staff for the STO Theme Park moot after the first 48 hours  :)

  By tapping into the viewing audience as well only primes the charge. imo.

STO could be 'one of' the greatest financial successes in (North American) gaming history, especially if it could give Lineage a run for its money.  Now that would be something.

Stryper7

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POSTS: 56

Report this Jun. 04 2005, 4:11 pm

I am totally ok with not being able to level up as fast as a person who would put more hours in per week on STO, I would mainly be playing a game like that because I would love to be a part of the Star Trek universe. Not everyone can be a Captain, there has to be the crewmen who are working hard behind the scenes to contribute to the success of everyone on the ship. Just as long as away missions are not too much like the television shows, with the captain and the bridge crew having all the fun. Hey, I am fine even if they go alone, but give the rest of the crew onboard things to do, like monitoring the progress of the mission etc.

DougQB

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POSTS: 236

Report this Jun. 10 2005, 5:08 am

Quote (Ellessar @ June 04 2005, 3:53 am)
. . . Now, the idea is similar to your SFC who would be creating missions.  However, there are two problems right now.  

One, the Hero's Journey idea is untested.  It may turn out to be a hit.  THen again it may turn out to be a flop.  THey may not have a large enough GM staff to reach a lrage enough audience to keep people interested and they may not be able to afford a larger GM staff.

Two, Hero's Journey is going about this story driven GM idea at the expense of normal MMO ideas.  THey are essentially doing little else aside from story quests.  Hero's Journey is going to be a very niche game.  STO needs to have boader appeal.  STO cannot simplu focus on story missons.  It is clear ST fans want more than just good story.  So STO might not be able to adopt such an idea because of cost.

Don't get me wrong, I think its a great idea and I hope Hero's Journey is a success so others try the idea as well.  My only fears are that it is too costly.

It will be interesting to see if the concept for Heroes Journey works well for a MMOG.  If it works well, they might just be a victim of their own success.

I didn't get the impression Heroes Journey was going to be story driven at the expense of typical elements everyone expects in an MMOG.  I also felt the story quests may go further than most realize.  We wont know for certain till we see it.

I was expecting the missions to be one of the crucial elements for Star Trek Online, especially when you consider most of your players may not be your average MMOG players.  There may be many more causual players who have much different goals than your typical MMOG player.  I suspect for these players the missions will be an important part of the game.

I agree though, I hope Heroes Journey is successful, since we may all benefit in the long run.

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