Star Trek

I can see where PE has it's hands tied on the PvP angle. They have to build a game based in the Trek Universe, try to kep it very close to canon, and still make it fun to play. They don't have much time to get the gutts of the game ready, and from what it sounds like from Mitch I think, there are only two guys doing the game development right now. Sure they have other guys doing things two, but if you have only two guys working on the gutts of the game, you will have to do a ton of give and take. That is why I think they are really focusing on the Federation only at launch, if they have maybe a few more developers to help the other two, maybe they can get one more faction out for launch.

The whole thing right now is based off of what staff PE has at the moment, but as time goes by and they see that we are really looking for a 2nd faction at least, maybe just maybe they will try to find more good development guys to help out.

I might be wrong, but if Mitch did say there are only two develpoment guys working on this game, I can see where they have to keep it simple at 1st. Just wish they had a few more guys if that is the case hehe.

Quote (Renaikan @ May 25 2005, 1:18 am)

Quote (poser002 @ May 25 2005, 3:29 am) Well if ur looking for pvp right now in the timeline klingons are allied with the feds and roms are at peace with the feds.  So all out war would not happen. Pvp would be very very tiny with those 2 empires.  So for multi faction u cant look for it to have pvp right now unless they change the events after ds9 and last movie.   You are all talking about multi faction for pvp but u want this factions that are allied with the federation right now so u want to break canon and i know alot of u are usen canon to kill alot of the ideas out there as it is not canon to you.  I like to have multi factions at some time but not for pvp. Just to play the game from a dif side is alays nice  if done right when added.   Just look at sw:g there is ur pvp game and it does not feel like sw alot because they have multi faction but dont have things that make it feel like u are part of the factions.  No AT-AT's no reb ground based army tanks. Just a few things made a post on the sw board we had up to about 300 things that they should ahve in there from weapons to armor to just tiny things.  But would u want to play st:o with 5 ships on each side?  Would this feel like st to u playing a hafe made faction?  Making a full federation i think would really be better to have everything that would make it the federation it is the tiny things that make it feel like u are part of it.  Just haven a few extra ships can make it feel more real. First off no need to preach canon on me, I have been a Star Trek fan since the mid 70s Sure the Federation is at peace with the Klingon and Romulan Empires. This game is taking place after Nemesis, so hostilities could flare up. Have you even tsaken in what I have said? How would it be if half or even most of your ship is empty when future factions are released in expansions? What fun will that be? How fun will it be a well leveled and established federation ship against a new faction ship still trying to level? See my point?

[QUOTE]

Of course tings could flare up.  Canon is no reason against PvP.  There were the border conflicts with the Cardissans and the Federation we heard about in TNG, DS9, and VOY.  Yet we never saw them in any series.  Any PvP could be explained in that manner.  You don't need to be in open war to fight.  Not to mention that this is a game.  SO you can bend canon a bit for a good fight.  Besides would you have a probelm with a PvE fight against a Romulan?  For some reason I don't think you would have a problem fighitng Romulans in PvE.  So why would it be different in PvP.

If we listen to your argument then there should be no fighting at all in both PvE or PvP.  Remember than any anti PvP canon argument also would apply to PvE.

But you see, it is posts like yours Poser that make me think that some of the oppoistion to factions are just using the PE one faction decesion as a shield for your PvP fears.  There is more to factions than just PvP.

It's good to see that it's the same five or six people arguing about this across the last eight pages, if you think you represent the full demographic that this game will be targetted at, that's great it really is

PvP will come to STO, I can wait, not that I'll be interested in playing as another faction anyway, it's my hope that the storyline will build up to an expansion and introduce an existing in game empire as a PvP counterpart- so we can have a rich and thorough experience exploring the ins and outs of the Star Trek universe from the Federation Starfleet POV before the wannabe marines turn up to spoil eveything by starting fights.

ooooooooo I'm gunna love it if they really break out the marines, Colonel.  I believe I would need them to be an effective war captain.

---   about posting ovah and ovah (if you were addressing me in that).

  Killing time, colonel.   We were up and on at the same time so it just flowed.  I'm under no illusions we represent the whole.  They have so many sources to draw from to build their conclusions.

  But then again we could be the 'chosen ones'.  hehehahahah   The ones who are makin it all happen with our ideas.  Me, these guys, you...and your socks.  

  eheheh.

No, it was just a general observation on two or three people thinking that they are telling it like it is, as if they know how tens of thousands of people will react to certain decisions made at this stage, who seem to me to want just another MMOG dressed up as Star Trek- and I can confidently say that I don't believe you want just another MMO, Kinneas

Hey ColonelGraff believe it or not, you do speak for a ton of people about this game. A lot of what is said by anyone, is thought about by others I am sure, so in a way you are speaking from them when you post your thoughts. May times I read something on here, and I feel the very same way, but I don't post a reply unless I feel the need too. Most of the times others say what I wanted to say, so why post more on it, if it was already touched on. I am sure that is what a lot of people think.

If you look at the reply vs view counts, you will see the views are always higher vs the replys. Not everyone relys, they let others do the talking if it's in the same line of thinking they have.

Quote (SirCedric2 @ May 24 2005, 6:36 pm)

Hey ColonelGraff believe it or not, you do speak for a ton of people about this game. A lot of what is said by anyone, is thought about by others I am sure, so in a way you are speaking from them when you post your thoughts. May times I read something on here, and I feel the very same way, but I don't post a reply unless I feel the need too. Most of the times others say what I wanted to say, so why post more on it, if it was already touched on. I am sure that is what a lot of people think. If you look at the reply vs view counts, you will see the views are always higher vs the replys. Not everyone relys, they let others do the talking if it's in the same line of thinking they have.

Post people don't bother replying most of time. Some silly issues, or issues that have been rehashed I don't comment upon.

One thing is sure though, there are some on these boards who act disgracefully towards new people.

This board seems to truely believe they represent everyone, truth is, I remember alot of hardcore people when the game was first announced, who have given up and not returned to these forums.

Well this thread has taken a sharp turn into a new area.  JazH you are correct.  There are a number of people who simply gave up on these forms.  I can recall a number of intense posters who no longer post here.  I don't think that has as much to do with the forms as it does the people themsevles.  

You see, nearly everyone who posts here on a regular basis is a die hard trek fan, an intense MMO gammer, or both in some cases.  These types, myself included, come to the forms with a clear idea of what we think a Trek MMO should be like.  Now, what tends to happen is that what we think should happen is not what the next guy thinks should happen.  So debate occurs.  Tempers are lost from time to time.  But, typically it is just point and then counter point.

Now some folks can't get their head around the fact that not everyone shares their view.  Some people think that once the have stated their case everyone should recognize they are right and come aboard.  Well, that hardly ever happens because people simply have different ideas.  The intense folks who can't understand people having different views generally get frustrated and leave.

My personal feelings on these forms are simple.  I don't post to change the mind of other posters.  I can count the number of times on one hand that someone here has actually changed their stance because of a persuasive argument.  That does not happen.  People have their views and they are entitled to them.  I don't feel compelled to change people's minds.  

I post mainly just to get my views out there.   This is mainly for any devs that might be reading.  If I see something I agree with I will post in agreement in the hopes a dev will see it and use the idea.  When I see something I don't agree with I do my best to bash the idea so it is not picked up.  That is how I operate here, and I think that is how a lot of folks operate here as well.

The problems that send people packing are when they try to start changing the minds of other posters.  Or they simply can't understand why people don't agree with them.

^ Correct.

Everyone here is on the same side.  We want to see PE make our vision of Trek the best way an MMO system can provide it.  Our visions aren't always the same (I for instance am not a die-hard, I have not been able to take as Trek seriously since watching Babylon 5, for instance) but I've played lots of MMOs.  

There is a tradeoff for Developers when they acquire a license like Trek that people like Blizzard don't have when they use the Warcraft franchise.

People feel strongly about what a Star Trek game should look and play like.

How many people, when considering a Warcraft MMO, had serious demands about how the game should play?  I hope my point is getting across here.  This truth, more than anything else, is why SWG ended up as a broken game, and details the challenge PE faces.

Regardless of difference of opinion, we should maintain a level of maturity and courtesy on the boards here, because many of the people posting here (and on other boards) if they stick around are the future leaders in the STO community for better or worse.

Debate is good, and it can change people's minds.  
Kinneas swayed to to be Cell all the way, stranger things have happened.

Yes  debate is good  I am trying to look at it from 3 points of veiw 1) as a solo player 2) as a clan member and 3) from the pov of a dev. The hardest part about it is that you go one way perpetual has left out the clans/fleets that have kept this community alive you go the other people complain about pvp and lack of content which could always be added with updates like in swg. In the end it boils down to this the trek gameing community has always been factionaly diverse and has always thrived on pvp and for both of these to be left out at release would seriously hurt the game. Sure you could leave out one or the other but not both. Perpetual has promised there would be something for clans but without one or the other factions or pvp perpetual is actualy ruleing out those who deserve to be in the game the most. They state that this game is made to promote social bonding while they are actualy destroying said bonds. A lot of people will not post on these forums due to the fact that perpetual has alienated them by leaveing them out as can be seen by the faq's.

Quote

Perpetual has promised there would be something for clans but without one or the other factions or pvp perpetual is actualy ruleing out those who deserve to be in the game the most.

Noone deservers a game more than another, however, I do feel the pain of being a Star Trek gamer at the minute.

Clans and PvP go hand in hand the majority of time, hence the current Trek clans don't see the pull factor of this game, they feel slightly betrayed to be left out of what should be, the greatest Star Trek game of all time.

Things have to be said though, Perpetual hasn't fully disclosed its plans for guilds and clans, they could have alot of features planned for them.

Quote (JazH @ May 25 2005, 5:20 pm)

Quote Perpetual has promised there would be something for clans but without one or the other factions or pvp perpetual is actualy ruleing out those who deserve to be in the game the most. Noone deservers a game more than another, however, I do feel the pain of being a Star Trek gamer at the minute. Clans and PvP go hand in hand the majority of time, hence the current Trek clans don't see the pull factor of this game, they feel slightly betrayed to be left out of what should be, the greatest Star Trek game of all time. Things have to be said though, Perpetual hasn't fully disclosed its plans for guilds and clans, they could have alot of features planned for them.

[QUOTE]

Yeah, but in the end without the competition among factions what does a clan/guild really exist for?  In all the MMOs I have played that did not have any sort of factional warfare, guilds were little more than orginizations to help people power game.  

You have exceptions of course.  You have your RP based guilds and in some games guilds based purely on crafting and economics.  However, in general guilds exist to battle rival guilds from opposing factions.

Quote (Taulek @ May 23 2005, 6:50 pm)

Everyone still does PVP for fun.

It would be nice if you don't speak for everyone, because I despise PVP of combative nature, I don't do it in any game, I prefer to do constructive things when playing.

I'd have more fun building a a building one brick at a time than blowing things up.

Adding to everyone still going on about it, PVP exists within the holodeck. I don't see why this is some big catastrophy, it's not any different than MMO's which have specific area's for pvp.

Those "specific areas" are almost never used.  I can't recall the time I ever participated in a "battlefield" fight in SWG or even read about anyone enjoying it.  The Holodeck is lame, and I'm not even a big PVPer.