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question for the devs

RKstarbuck

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 250

Report this May. 23 2005, 8:15 pm

Why cant starting races include klingons , romulans , cardasians,borg, or someother race that is always at odds with the ufp? and professions like spies , shipbuilders, entertainers, venders, or other combat classes then plain old security/tacticle? all of these professions you have listed are those for starfleet maybe i want to oppose starfleet.

PerpetualAdmin

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POSTS: 211

Report this May. 23 2005, 8:23 pm

Its a good question, and one most people here have asked at least once.

The answers comes down to scope of the project. Yes, we all believe that the more choices the better. The more different races and ways you can live your life the better. But, we only have a limited amount of time and money to make the game. So, by adding more choices we water down the depth and number of unique gameplay hours available per race/class/faction.

So, we have to figure out a good balance.

We don't want to do everything under the sun and do a crappy job of it. But we want to do as much as possible. We are still hotly debating internally about the right balance. How deep do we want to race choices to be? How deep do we want the professions to be? Can we afford to do another faction at the cost of an interesting federation? We feel your pain at our current design limitations and I want you to realize that we are trying to maximize the depth and uniqueness of the choices available.

- Mitch

Taulek

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 311

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:09 pm

Quote (PerpetualAdmin @ May 23 2005, 5:23 pm)
Its a good question, and one most people here have asked at least once.

The answers comes down to scope of the project. Yes, we all believe that the more choices the better. The more different races and ways you can live your life the better. But, we only have a limited amount of time and money to make the game. So, by adding more choices we water down the depth and number of unique gameplay hours available per race/class/faction.

So, we have to figure out a good balance.

We don't want to do everything under the sun and do a crappy job of it. But we want to do as much as possible. We are still hotly debating internally about the right balance. How deep do we want to race choices to be? How deep do we want the professions to be? Can we afford to do another faction at the cost of an interesting federation? We feel your pain at our current design limitations and I want you to realize that we are trying to maximize the depth and uniqueness of the choices available.

- Mitch

Hadn't you ever considered that not having the Klingon faction nor the Romulan faction would impact future sales? People enjoy Startrek simply because of the political issues. For example TOS was very popular due to the fact that it was pretty much mirrored to the real life events of the cold war.

You also have to take it into account that is that the Federation faction you're designing. Is it going to be able to furfill the ambitions of power gamers? Who usually master every MMORPG within months of release?

Also you said something about the cost of an interesting Federation faction? What do you mean? Do you mean if you add another Faction that it would closely resemeble the Federation too much? That you wouldn't be able to focus on the creation of missions? Aside from missions, how really different are Federation officers from Romulan officers? Aside from different layouts and different technologies it's not like you're creating a new gameplay engine from the group up  :D

Another point is what may be "interesting" to you Mitch may not be interesting to the common gamer, alla your customer. He may not find 2500+ missions to be unsuitable for entertainment, or being confined to one faction battling Non-player characters being immensely bored and ends up quitting. The commoner gamer (lets call him Joe), Joe thinks the Federation is nothing more than a bunch of carebears and would jump at the chance to see things from the eyes of the Romulan faction and maybe even fight against his Federation counterparts?

From playing past Space Mmorpgs. I have played Earth and Beyond, Starwars Galaxies and even EVE online. I can tell you from first hand that battling NPCs in space has to be one of the dullest boringest things you can do. The NPCS are often predictable and overpowered which makes the game totally not fun.

Has anyone played SWG: Launch to Lightspeed? Anyone played Earth and Beyond? Anyone who has played those two games can back me up on how NPC battling sounds cool on paper but after 30 minutes of playing the A.i. seems predictable and or too easily overpowered and than everyone leaves.

Ellessar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1848

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:13 pm

Quote (PerpetualAdmin @ May 23 2005, 5:23 pm)
Its a good question, and one most people here have asked at least once.

The answers comes down to scope of the project. Yes, we all believe that the more choices the better. The more different races and ways you can live your life the better. But, we only have a limited amount of time and money to make the game. So, by adding more choices we water down the depth and number of unique gameplay hours available per race/class/faction.

So, we have to figure out a good balance.

We don't want to do everything under the sun and do a crappy job of it. But we want to do as much as possible. We are still hotly debating internally about the right balance. How deep do we want to race choices to be? How deep do we want the professions to be? Can we afford to do another faction at the cost of an interesting federation? We feel your pain at our current design limitations and I want you to realize that we are trying to maximize the depth and uniqueness of the choices available.

- Mitch

[QUOTE]

That's a copout.  It is an excuse for not wanting to do a little more work and create things that are obviously popular and mainstream trek.  

I just hope the player base sticks around after the content runs out and waits for the expansion that will bring what should have been included with the launch version.

Taulek

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 311

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:16 pm

The problem is that no one waits for expanisons.

I remember waiting for the Combat revamp in SWG and it NEVER NEVER CAME, so I ended up quitting due to the fact that I felt like I was being extorted by SoE and that I shouldn't be paying 15 dollars a month for Starwars Galaxies: A Chatroom divided

tdpatriots12

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 178

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:32 pm

Developers in my experience don't listen to input.  In some cases this is good (Asheron's Call) when the Devs have great ideas.  In other cases, like SWG, it results in a broken game.

However I have absolutely no problem with them starting with the Federation first as long as they get it right and release the expansions expeditiously.  People will be too concerned with leveling to actually notice a majority of the flaws with the vanilla game, as is the case with all RPGs the complaining doesn't really start till people get complacent.

The problem with releasing all the factions at once will result in PVP being the benchmark of game balance, and it will be bad for the game if it is based solely on keeping everything fair and balanced (like SWG did).  Each faction has its own strengths and weaknesses and they should be examined independently.

Aiten

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1040

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:35 pm

I agree on the Federation, I dont want two limited attempts at factions.

Whats the point, it will just have the same flaws as other MMO's then.

Taulek

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 311

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:39 pm

Quote (tdpatriots12 @ May 23 2005, 6:32 pm)
Developers in my experience don't listen to input.  In some cases this is good (Asheron's Call) when the Devs have great ideas.  In other cases, like SWG, it results in a broken game.

However I have absolutely no problem with them starting with the Federation first as long as they get it right and release the expansions expeditiously.  People will be too concerned with leveling to actually notice a majority of the flaws with the vanilla game, as is the case with all RPGs the complaining doesn't really start till people get complacent.

The problem with releasing all the factions at once will result in PVP being the benchmark of game balance, and it will be bad for the game if it is based solely on keeping everything fair and balanced (like SWG did).  Each faction has its own strengths and weaknesses and they should be examined independently.

SWG is the only game that pretty much flopped a two faction system. WOW's PVP wasn't like SWG.

The thing about SWG is that they never had faction content in the first place. The game was rushed about 2 years. SWG Devs had great ideas like being able to control squads of NPCs, even armies (faction HQs) but they ended up rushing squads (which the npcs weren't being used) and the faction HQs had no interection between the owner and the base. The npcs say "move along civilan" when you're the commander of the base  :whatthe:

RKstarbuck

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 250

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:42 pm

Taulek it finaly came and it messed the entire thing up.

No the reason i have problems with the choice of races is because you have allies fighting allies as the andorians and tellarites have been members of the UFP since tos yet the romulans and klingons have been there since the begining as well yet they are being left for updates and exspansions we may never get. also i noticed in one of the faq's one question asked about transportation and it didnt realy answer the question as it should have. means it is after nemisis the answer should have answered if there would be fighters and ground transport vehicals like the dune buggy in nemisis.:question:

tdpatriots12

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 178

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:46 pm

The lack of a true enemy won't be a serious issue at first.  People will be numbed by their grinding to their desired post to think about the long term future of their character or the game as a whole.  The key for PE is to release the first expansion before players begin to wonder why they're still playing, which is a bridge that every MMO player has to cross from time to time.

Not to mention the "Holy Crap I'm in Star Trek" effect lasts about a month anyway.

Taulek

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 311

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:47 pm

*blank*

Taulek

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 311

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:50 pm

Quote (tdpatriots12 @ May 23 2005, 6:46 pm)
The lack of a true enemy won't be a serious issue at first.  People will be numbed by their grinding to their desired post to think about the long term future of their character or the game as a whole.  The key for PE is to release the first expansion before players begin to wonder why they're still playing, which is a bridge that every MMO player has to cross from time to time.

If you ever had played a MMORPG before, you would know that powergamers would easily master their profession or reach their suitable end game content, cause a ruckus on the forums and plus it doesn't matter if you're fresh off the boat (pc) or a master phasermen. Everyone still does PVP for fun. Swg, Wow, etc. Are all like that. People will find the lack of a PVP feature leaving them nothing to prove their skills and they end up leaving in frustration

Ellessar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1848

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:52 pm

Quote (tdpatriots12 @ May 23 2005, 6:46 pm)
The lack of a true enemy won't be a serious issue at first. People will be numbed by their grinding to their desired post to think about the long term future of their character or the game as a whole. The key for PE is to release the first expansion before players begin to wonder why they're still playing, which is a bridge that every MMO player has to cross from time to time.

[QUOTE]

That is the problem isn't it.  Expansions never come in time to stop players from moving on.  Players did not wait around for SWG to get better.  They will not wait for STO either.  It is not a question of if they become board, but when.  Content always runs out.  Expansions generally come around one year after launch.  Content runs out around 3-6 months.  

Simple fact is people will not wait around for half a year to get what should have been included at launch.  Remember that by the time STO launches there will be a load of other quality MMOs around.  Take a look at E3 this year and see how many great MMOs are in the works.  STO cannot afford to wait for an expansion.  Players will move onto the next best thing.  

Content no matter how good does not keep players in game.

Taulek

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 311

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:54 pm

Yeah and the number of MMORPGS are becoming more popular.

For example I can think of several mmorpgs coming out in the next few years, heck even Xbox 360 has its own MMORPG called Huxley.

tdpatriots12

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 178

Report this May. 23 2005, 9:56 pm

Quote (Taulek @ May 22 2005, 8:50 pm)
Quote
If you ever had played a MMORPG before, you would know that powergamers would easily master their profession or reach their suitable end game content, cause a ruckus on the forums and plus it doesn't matter if you're fresh off the boat (pc) or a master phasermen. Everyone still does PVP for fun. Swg, Wow, etc. Are all like that. People will find the lack of a PVP feature leaving them nothing to prove their skills and they end up leaving in frustration

And the Devs have a responsibility to not listen to the vocal minority.  I've played about four MMO's, by the way.

Personally if I was running things over at PE, I'd start the Expansion before the first release, and overlap the development so i could put out the first expansion around 4 months after release.  Beta tested three.

OR provide an actual monthly update system (one that kept its time, not like SWG which had monthly updates every 3 months).

But to rush through features just to satisfy PVP powergamers will hurt the game in the long term and result in just another inevitable Nerf Trek Online.

And on another note; not everyone does PVP, and out of those that do, you'd have to assume some would be satisfied by the Holodeck dueling feature.  

Then again, the powerleveling elite will ALWAYS leave the game for the next big thing, they always do, there's nothing I can think of that will ever change it.

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