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Your place in Starfleet

Darvic

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2

Report this Dec. 15 2004, 6:01 pm

I sorta like the idea(s) from both sides. But as most of us have played many online games in the past or are currently doing so. I currently play UO and SWG so my thoughts come from playing these games. Several issues should be kept in mind or planned on.
(1) GM's will not always be around to talk to players. We will se a lot of  canned answers/respondes to questions.
(2) A lot of the game (Story/Quest/Missions) will be handled by NPC's.
(3) Will there be a player run economy?
(4) Skill & Combat Balance will be a major issue.
(5) Will there be a "Loot" system.
(6) In order to be in a certain "Guild" do you have to be a member of a certain ship/vessel?

I could continue with this, but I'm willing to bet that most of us are veterans at online games and seen many issues come and go. So the BIG question is, can an "ALLROUND" program be devoloped that Make the solo, Large Group, Small Group players happy. Please excuse my mindless ramblings, I'm a young person (47) that enjoys playing online games and bumping my gums. *See what retirement brings* :rookie:

Aiten

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1040

Report this Dec. 16 2004, 12:51 am

Ok, so 1 GMs for every 200/300 people is too much, perhaps they should use the old system.

2 GM per server & A team of Game Event Coordrinators (About 10 people to design, program and breif etc.).


I cant see how any idea will help the small crew people. I would love too work onboard a large starship personally, and I know I am not alone here.  Perhaps then, people (helpers like volunteer GM's in other MMOs) could take control. The GM would be a catpatin for many ships, then people are chosen below him.

Technically the ship will just be used as a moving home, unless of course you want a stationary home(not going boldly where no one has gone  before)?

For a small crew, the only way I can see this working too give you the immersion you need is as follows. (Again, makes assumptions that PvP will come.

Ship
* Small, Warp Cabale ship (Max crew 70 - for guilds)
* Upgradeable (Much much more than larger ships)
* Not tied to the Federation
* Can hold up to 5 shuttles
* Complete facilities (holo-deck too stella cartography)
* PvP Mode avaliable (!;)
* Can store xyz equipment
* Not restricted too where it can go
* Quarters are assigned to crew, chosen by First Officer or higher (not random)

Crew
* Made up of friends/guilds
* NO NPC'!?! (or it kind of defeats the point of the small groups of friends)
* Can be anyone from Romulan to Species 3472
* Must have permission before boarding (unless under attack)
* Again, message board just for the ship is avaliable

Equipment
* Upgrades can be purchases from anywhere
* Equipment is not free, the team has to buy it
* Has to be repaired when damaged (another cost, but avaliable anywhere)

(!;) Refers too optional pvp mode if not with a full crew onboard, but if there is, pvp mode is turned on automatically away from safe zones.


That method there is the best I can manage too think of for a small crew, therefore allowing both people like me having a large community and working on a living breathing starship and you guys can have a small, close knit family in STO.

Does that sound a good idea (which I would like too develop further in spare time) or is it still not enough for you?

Still got too look at the solo aspect yet, but one stage at a time.

lol and Daybreak, stop worrying how your money is going too be spent.  This will is more than likely a $10-15,000,000 project, even for 10 years subscribing your money is not going too make any difference.  They will make this with/without out our support.
They'll get 500,000 users in the first year. That x $15 = $7,500,000.  Over 5 years (I expect it will only last that long) thats $40,000,000 if no one leaves or joins after the first year.

Perosnally I expect this too be much larger than Everquest or SWG etc.

Daybreak

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 652

Report this Dec. 16 2004, 9:38 am

Heh, the fact of the matter is...I don't just represent me...I represent my demographics and pretty much all of my friends/family.

If I hate it, out of the 20-30 of us, I can't see more than 3-5 of us buying the game and none of them will play it more than a year.  This is how it has been for every single mmog we've looked at.

So...that's 18,000 bucks over 5 years...from just lil ol me.  The producers of any product know that behind one voice like you or me, there's a lot more people who aren't doing the talking.  I got no demographics for them, so I can't list figures.

I think you're still talking about indestructable ships?  I can't quite tell.

Even 70 people per ship is ludicrous.  I'd be bored to tears if there was more than 10 (unless it's a really complex ship like a Prometheus).  

Crews will have to include x number of NPC's, especially security guards.  Number should be based on ship class because I could see the Sovereign with a couple hundred armed goons aboard...but I don' think there's enough room for that many people aboard a Defiant class.  Give the defenders a specific advantage to repel boarders.

PVP mode?  I'm pretty sure everyone is in agreement that there should be pvp zones (assuming additional player races bring conflict).  Anyone in those zones (not of your empire) is fair game, basically...unless some game mechanic like an alliance exists.  Shouldn't be any kind of a pvp switch at all.

Crew of....aliens?  Uh, I don't see how.  Species 8472 (it's an 8, not a 3) ??  What's with the fascination with this species?  They're no differet than a biological Borg.  There's no culture established for these guys...they would be difficult to implement.  Let's try to stick with Alpha Quadrant species, please?  Sure we can talk Dominon later.

Let's leave the multi-species ships for SWG as well, ok?  I don't want to be in a game where your crew can consist of any race...it blow immersion out of the water and sinks it to the deepest depths.  It makes me think that you don't even understand what the word means.

Immersion in ST:O is basically like bathing in canon Star Trek.  No funky ships designed by 12 year olds, no modding except in holodecks where it's realistic, no wonky delta quadrant aliens working on romulan ships.  

I don't think you get it...so let me make a suggestion instead of being so openly critical of all of your ideas...I know I am coming across like an ogre.


GM driven ships:
*GM or volunteer seer as captain
*No point ot upgrading it since it can't be destroyed
*It cannot enter pvp
*It cannot enter GM events like repelling Borg invasions, because it cannot be destroyed
*It is NOT designed to be ultra heroic
*It IS designed to give players hands-on experience
*The GM/seer Captain creates missions and has special powers to be able to modify missions on the fly
*Sure it can be a Federation ship...every player species can have one/some...in fact it SHOULD be aligned to a government
*Unlimited shuttles / Danube class runabouts so players can do solo missions and return to the ship
*Unlimited special equipment, but you can't keep it if you go off on your own
*Crew quarters for everyone

It basically is a learning-intensive haven for players to play as long as they like and experience a single-ship community.



Player-driven Fleets.
*This is your basic guild entity
*As your numbers grow, the number of ships your Fleet can posess increases.  Bigger ships require more players than smaller ships.  Crews of even 5 people can still posess their own ship this way, but crews of 1-200 would have several ships at their disposal
*Any commanding officer (Commander or Captain) can take command of one of their Fleet's ships and do missions
*Commanding officers in charge of a ship can choose to make the ship public so anyone at the same dock can join the mission, or they can make it private so only guild members can join and as well, they can invite individuals along
*Each ship has its' own specific abilities and capacities.  A Galaxy class is known to have 60+ shuttles according to the technical manual, but the Defiant has less than 5.  Some have more cargo room than others, etc.
*Definitely has NPC's on board.  If your helmsman is sick or otherwise not playing, you don't want to be stuck in port.  Certainly every single position on the ship is occupied by an NPC unless relieved by a living, breathing player.  When that player leaves, goes AFK or is disconnected...then they are replaced by the NPC again.  There is also a good number of NPC security guards to defend the ship.  It would suck if one Klingon beamed aboard, killed all 5 of the bridge crew and was able to steal a ship that way.
*Definitely need permission to board, unless under attack (at which point their shields will likely be up so it's pretty hard to bard)
*Equipment is built by engineering staff/replicated, not bought.  The Federation does not have money, remember.
*Repairing can be done while in space, or at a dock, depending on severity.  Repairs, again, must be free or cost some abstract statistic like prestige, because there is no money in the Federation.
*Prestige would be a statistic assigned to a ship for completeing missions, could be used to buy repairs, upgrades or special ammunition/probes.

artika

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 173

Report this Dec. 16 2004, 10:01 am

Quote (Daybreak @ Dec. 14 2004, 8:54 am)
Uh...not interested in having a GM play ship's captain at all...sorry.

I don't WANT to be on an invulnerable starship, I want to be able to make mistakes and have them cost me my ship. The thrill of victory is hollow if there is no danger in defeat (like other MMOGs that give you a tiny penalty).

I want to have to put my trust in each and every crewmember, and know exactly how far I can trust them and what their capabilities are. Or more correctly, I want to LEARN that and then rely on it in the future.

yes i agree here completely...i'm am NOt a fan of guilds...but i'm a fan of new friends joining in to do the same thing :) Some people may argue it's the same thing, but to ME (that's to me) i believe it's different.

I do like your idea's though, but there not for me :)

artika

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 173

Report this Dec. 16 2004, 10:02 am

Quote (Aiten @ Dec. 13 2004, 9:14 pm)
Please bear with me on this idea, it may take sometime to get across, and makes some assumptions upon the game.
Read through and discuss.

UPDATED: BOTTOM OF DOCUMENT

Basis:
Too automatically assign a Starfleet Player too a ship.

Detail:
As a new player, you have graduated from Starfleet Academy (1) with enough skill too hold your ground in a fight, and many skills you chose too pursue when you enter the academy (2).
Wearing your new uniform, your tutor (3) informs you too head too another part of Starfleet academy to be assigned too a crew.  You take a short journey and speak with an officer (3) for Starfleet.  She informs you that you have been place on the crew manifest for the 'USS Pegasus IV' (4).  You are to proceed too meet with the Galaxy class star ship as you please.
You head too the student lounge, say fair well too some friends and access the Starfleet Database.  The database gives you the current location of the 'USS Pegasus IV'.  From Starfleet academy, you proceed to Deep Space 9 where the ship is currently docked for upgrades.
After reaching DS9, you find the Pegasus and board.  You are met with a crew member (3) who supplies you with a data pad.  The data pad holds information on the crew, your room location and your position.  You head up too your room, unpack and introduce yourself too the captain.


(1) A training island which you can freely leave and enter
(2) Character Creation
(3) NPC
(4) You may accept or decline


Now more detail.  

The Ship
 There are few (no more than 5 per server) ships that players are automatically assigned too
 Pegasus accommodates hundreds of players on its decks
 Ships venture into space and explore on captains orders
 Pegasus is much larger than any ship available too players
 The Pegasus will be invincible, but can be attacked and disabled for 10 mins (Inter mini-community battles, purely for fun and arranged by captains)
 Pegasus will have a message board accessible from most parts of the ship
 Captain can set up events such as a Borg assault when there are enough players too accommodate the attack.
 The Pegasus will do a range of missions from research too combat.
 New stories will be designed for these ships

The Crew
 Captain is a paid full time moderator, players can be bridge staff
 The crew can only access the bridge with permission
 New players will not be assigned to ships that are inaccessible by newbies
 Any member of the crew may leave the ship without permission and do their own thing or move too another ship
 Hundreds of players will be on a ship at one time (a mini community)
 Anyone can leave the crew permanently and set up their own ship/crew at anytime
 Players will have their own quarters to do as they wish with onboard
 Players can store one personal shuttle on the ship (To enter and leave as you wish)
 People will vote onboard too choose their next destination
 People wear Uniform onboard
 No shifts, its up too you want too do.
 NPCs always acting as crew, you can take over at anytime.  With permission, you can even do bridge roles.
 After time, people will assume roles on the star ship
 Crew members will be assigned an area (Security, Medical etc.) where they can train their skills on peple and NPC whenever they want.  They do not have to do anything if they so wish

The Equipment
 Holo-decks always available (expect when in a fight)
 Equipment is freely available if you are onboard, but if you leave too do your own thing, this equipment is taken away from you.
 Free shuttles and runabouts when you are on ship missions
 If you are too far to travel without warp, the shuttle is teleported to within a 3 minute full impulse journey too the closest planet or star base.


Conclusion
Advantages
 A mini-community (say 200+ players per star ship)
 True immersion into the Star Trek world
 You become part of a crew
 Free equipment
 Can be promoted
 Storylines that the ship undertakes
 The star ship will always feel like a working star ship
 A travelling home
 Moderator, always near you and part of your mini-community
 You will work on a ship that is much larger and more powerful than a player controlled ship.

Negatives too this idea
 Not suited to those who do not wish to be in Starfleet (option is there too leave)
 Not suited for the 'loner' types
 Can lead too a boring environment if there is no missions available (option too go elsewhere)




Please think of these questions when answering
Would you like too see this as an optional way to play STO?
Would you join a star ship like I have said if the options was there?
Although there is a choice in this matter to join or not, do you think the idea is a waste of time?
How would you create immersion?
Would this work if there were non SF alternatives eg Romulan?
Can you thinkof anymore +/- too this idea?


UPDATE:
Just out of a thought, there will probally be a 1000 player server cap right? so if there are 200 x5 on starships, thats nothing for stations.
STO could do a 'Dark & Light' and have the servers work in unison too create one world, therefore you could have 10,000's of people playing in the same world at once, but connected on different servers.
If that makes no sense, just say lol
10 servers = 1 galaxy
or
10 servers = 10 galaxies?

opps i meant the above reply to the poster :) sorry!

Aiten

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1040

Report this Dec. 16 2004, 10:20 am

Quote (Daybreak @ Dec. 16 2004, 6:38 am)
I think you're still talking about indestructable ships? I can't quite tell.

Even 70 people per ship is ludicrous. I'd be bored to tears if there was more than 10 (unless it's a really complex ship like a Prometheus).

Crew of....aliens? Uh, I don't see how.
I don't want to be in a game where your crew can consist of any race...it blow immersion out of the water

GM driven ships:
*It cannot enter GM events like repelling Borg invasions, because it cannot be destroyed
*It IS designed to give players hands-on experience
*The GM/seer Captain creates missions and has special powers to be able to modify missions on the fly
*Unlimited shuttles / Danube class runabouts so players can do solo missions and return to the ship
*Unlimited special equipment, but you can't keep it if you go off on your own
*Crew quarters for everyone

It basically is a learning-intensive haven for players to play as long as they like and experience a single-ship community.



Player-driven Fleets.
*This is your basic guild entity
*As your numbers grow, the number of ships your Fleet can posess increases. Bigger ships require more players than smaller ships. Crews of even 5 people can still posess their own ship this way, but crews of 1-200 would have several ships at their disposal
*Any commanding officer (Commander or Captain) can take command of one of their Fleet's ships and do missions
*Commanding officers in charge of a ship can choose to make the ship public so anyone at the same dock can join the mission, or they can make it private so only guild members can join and as well, they can invite individuals along
*Each ship has its' own specific abilities and capacities. A Galaxy class is known to have 60+ shuttles according to the technical manual, but the Defiant has less than 5. Some have more cargo room than others, etc.
*Definitely has NPC's on board. If your helmsman is sick or otherwise not playing, you don't want to be stuck in port. Certainly every single position on the ship is occupied by an NPC unless relieved by a living, breathing player. When that player leaves, goes AFK or is disconnected...then they are replaced by the NPC again. There is also a good number of NPC security guards to defend the ship. It would suck if one Klingon beamed aboard, killed all 5 of the bridge crew and was able to steal a ship that way.
*Definitely need permission to board, unless under attack (at which point their shields will likely be up so it's pretty hard to bard)
*Equipment is built by engineering staff/replicated, not bought. The Federation does not have money, remember.
*Repairing can be done while in space, or at a dock, depending on severity. Repairs, again, must be free or cost some abstract statistic like prestige, because there is no money in the Federation.
*Prestige would be a statistic assigned to a ship for completeing missions, could be used to buy repairs, upgrades or special ammunition/probes.

Ill go though point by point.
No i dont see you as an ogre lol, i value peoples opinions, its nice too see the other side.

1: GM Ships, yes they are invincible, player ships are not

2: Note it said Max 70 people.  I was assuming we all believe that there is going too be more than once call of ship,  ranging from a solo pilot shuttle too a large battle cruiser.  Therefore if you wanted just 1-5 friends, you get a 1-5 person ship.

3: It was an expression, lol, I didnt actually mean 8472 (Could you imagine an uber race? god help everyone)

4: Actually yes I agree here, the ship should also have its own situations. So an NPC attack on the ship, but that only relates too that ship.  Nothing too do with player ships.

5: As I said earlier, if you own one then you can put it onboard.  You need too buy one first though correct?

6: You have chnaged my mind on NPCS for player ships:)

7: I love the idea as prestige for currency. (Has that been bought up before I dont remeber reading the currency topics)


You have valid points my friend, dont think your an orge for it.  We are here to discuss ideas  :)

Daybreak

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 652

Report this Dec. 16 2004, 1:38 pm

Good good.

There's no reasons why two systems couldn't be implemented.  A GM/Seer run ship for either training or career advancement might be fun to some people.  I'm sure the Seers would become accomplished teachers.


You'd just have to create a situation where a friendly player-run ship couldn't come along and get involved.  Run it in it's own area of space devoid of other starfleet activity?  An extended range mapping mission, perhaps.  Some people might think 'voyager' but we don't want this ship to be out of range of starfleet...players would need the freedom to come and go as they please.

Yeah I brought up prestige a while ago when i was making my inaugural posts =P  I don't know if they are even saved on the board at all, it was a while ago.  It should definitely be assigned to the ship, too, since a player might do some ship-hopping even within a fleet, and obviously the refits can't go with them.

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