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No Warp

ZeframCochran

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POSTS: 941

Report this Dec. 07 2004, 10:12 am

The subject came up in Astronomy magazine one time. I don't remember the particulars, but I believe there were about 15 possible alternative explanations. One was down-conversion of the light's frequency by intervening stuff (similar to microwave down-conversion).

I wasn't doubting the doppler effect (I'm not an idiot). This is just a case in point that the accepted explanation is not necessarily always the right one.
:)

lanceromega

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POSTS: 3859

Report this Dec. 07 2004, 11:49 am

Quote (ZeframCochran @ Dec. 07 2004, 7:12 am)
The subject came up in Astronomy magazine one time. I don't remember the particulars, but I believe there were about 15 possible alternative explanations. One was down-conversion of the light's frequency by intervening stuff (similar to microwave down-conversion).

I wasn't doubting the doppler effect (I'm not an idiot). This is just a case in point that the accepted explanation is not necessarily always the right one.
:)

problem with down conversion is that in involves the interaction of light with matter, such interaction leave telltale sign, called spectral lines.

astronomers and chemist can tell you that all matter leave these spectral lines, you can ID what elementals were involved and the temperature the substance was at.

This is how Helium was first discovered and the existant of the Lyman tree (clouds of instellar hydrogen gas between the Galaxies).

Any shift of Freq due to interaction of matter would be easily identify. The only other interaction of Light that can cause Freq shift would involved Gamma rays interaction with photons from the big bang or powerful magnetic fields, but Astronomer use Visible or even radio freq to determine Redshifts and these would not be effected by such interactions.

What I find amazing is that you can attack me with for being closed minded, yet you fail to include the Issue of the magazine so we all can check your source. If you notice when I post I never result to personal attacks, and I alway provide a link or Quote.

ZeframCochran

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 941

Report this Dec. 07 2004, 2:03 pm

No personal attack intended, L_O. Maybe it's something in the translation...

It was quite a few years ago that I read it, so I haven't a clue where to find it now. You could do a google search on it if you wanted to.*

Let me make my point absolutely clear: I believe redshift generally is caused by objects receding from us. But I don't accept it without reserving the right to examine individual instances and question them. Here's a link that kind'v shows what I mean: http://www.calresco.org/cosmic.htm

The same is true of any scientific point that is not an obvious truth. Most science, and the bizarre subatomic world in particular, must be questioned to arrive at the genuine truth. :logical: :)


*Footnote: Heterodyning (down/up converting) can occurr in EM with the mixing of any two signals in an intervening medium: could be interstellar gas/dust, whatever.

lanceromega

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POSTS: 3859

Report this Dec. 07 2004, 3:50 pm

Quote (ZeframCochran @ Dec. 07 2004, 11:03 am)
No personal attack intended, L_O. Maybe it's something in the translation...

It was quite a few years ago that I read it, so I haven't a clue where to find it now. You could do a google search on it if you wanted to.*

Let me make my point absolutely clear: I believe redshift generally is caused by objects receding from us. But I don't accept it without reserving the right to examine individual instances and question them. Here's a link that kind'v shows what I mean: http://www.calresco.org/cosmic.htm

The same is true of any scientific point that is not an obvious truth. Most science, and the bizarre subatomic world in particular, must be questioned to arrive at the genuine truth. :logical: :)


*Footnote: Heterodyning (down/up converting) can occurr in EM with the mixing of any two signals in an intervening medium: could be interstellar gas/dust, whatever.

and the resulting light would have spectral lines showing the interacting with matter.

Of cause if you take every case of redshift measurement ( there are over a million such measurement) and of cause you find anomalies. If you look most of them deal with distant Quasars, or with object that may be blackholes. As it stand such object themselve are dealing with the boundaries of modern physics.

As for the personal attacks, it not a matter of translation but of what is said. You said I not open minded, yet you fail to take in account the 100's of post I submitted, some stating my belief in FTL travel in the future, teleportation or time travel. As it stand that make me in the eyes of my peer a rebel.

While you doubt proven instants of Quantum Mechanic weirdness and even Relavitivity, with no more of I donot believe in it.. That to me is closed minded..

But that just my opinion, It seem to me you contain a bias to modern science, but I could be wrong. Maybe it the Tag line you you trend to put in your post, put you in the camp of more of the radical elements of antiscience fundementalists, but it funny since you donot strike me as one. Especially in light of your superior logical and knowledge of subject we are discussing.

Maybe you just need to bush up on the rules of debates ( not political debating) which put personal attacks as bad form..

ZeframCochran

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 941

Report this Dec. 07 2004, 3:58 pm

Tag line. You mean:
--------------
"The line must be drawn HERE. This far, no further!" ?

lanceromega

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3859

Report this Dec. 07 2004, 4:26 pm

Quote (ZeframCochran @ Dec. 07 2004, 12:58 pm)
Tag line. You mean:
--------------
"The line must be drawn HERE. This far, no further!" ?

I mean your constant "science is subjective".

I like the Picard's qoute, it the only time he showed real backbone..

As for the link, ho my god could you get any more Pseudo science. It a Electric Universe site!!! I won't even begin to discuss how wrong it is, but Aarp was a great Plasma Physicist that just couldnot let the Steady state universe theory go, it a shame as it stand not even Fundamental christian Creationalist even agree with it anymore. Thanks for the laught :laugh:

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