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This is being done wrong!

sakko

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 27

Report this Nov. 01 2004, 3:12 pm

Hmm there are lots of City of Heroes fans eagerly anticipating the expansion, City of Villians, which will feature a PVP system. Perhaps, that same strategy will work for STO as well?

"Here play our game, feds only, but get ready for the Romulan Uprising! Coming to stores fall 2015 (heh)"

Hmm.. one game that comes to mind in light of current discussion is Anarchy Online. Any AO players out there? Content in AO in my opinion was mostly a grind however. It came to mind since I played up to level 178 over the course of several years. 80 with another character, a few up to 40... What kept me playing so long? I did like their mission system though it was rather rudimentary. The setting was very nice as well, very strange far in the future sci-fi setting. Akward at first but addicting as you grew into it.

I agree with the content being eaten up too fast in most games. The mission generator proposed by Daybreak should help some though. After rescuing a stranded vessel too close to a star I can't see myself saying "Well, that was fun, but I'll never do that again!"

If you have 1 mission in a game, repeating it over and over would truly get boring. If you have 2? 10? 100? When will come the point at which you don't mind doing missions over again?

I suppose the answer would be, how similar is the experience? How many people did I complete the mission with? What ship were we on? How was it configured, and how challenging was it as a result? Did we have weapon_x to compensate for the difficulty? Was it so long ago I don't even remember the outcome? Is there more than one outcome?

400 missions? 500?

The problem with Anarchy Online's missions was that they were effectively all the same. There were about 15 different mission descriptions (not kidding) in which the ultimate goal was either to:

1. kill an individual
2. find an individual
3. find an item
4. repair a device
5. find an item and bring it back to the mission terminal

But the content of the mission was such that it was a randomly generated facility/cave system/whatever. This is a good idea. The good idea stops here because every room was then inhabited by a hostile creature of some sort.

Your mission ended up going as follows:

1. go to mission terminal, skip all text and find location, if desirable select mission

2. travel to mission location and enter

3. proceed room to room slaying every solo monster (some rooms had double spawns ooh fun) until you find objective.

4. complete objective, go get another mission.

Pleaaaase don't make STO's mission system like this! Throw in some variables and scripts to the missions and things would be alot of fun in my opinion.

Daybreak

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 652

Report this Nov. 01 2004, 3:58 pm

My whole idea of a dynamic mission generator (not saying nobody else thought of this, but this is my spin on it) was to create a few hundred thousand possible combinations.

This would take a hell of a lot of content writing, and a great deal of testing to make sure it was bulletproof.  Aaah but the end result would be an easily modified/increased dynamic system what would purposely throw curveballs.

Maybe a mission might be described as 'go rescue the USS Hopeless from the gravitywell of a star because their engines failed.'  Some of the curveballs might be that the crew has gone nuts due to a wacky anomoly and starts shooting at you, or that YOUR engines fail due to the same thing that shut theirs down...

Curveballs, setbacks, dead-ends, failure conditions and I suggest at least 2 different ways to end with a mission success.  Logically, this would be a blast to plot, but I know I could do it.

Logic flowcharting is like the funnest thing I ever learned in school. (I'm SUCH a nerd)

You take 50 different mission templates, pick 1 or 2 curveballs from the 'I'm here to mess with you, but make the game fun' category, throw in a 'false lead' and a couple clues that are tied in with the victory conditions and you have a dynamic mission.  No two would be alike.

And then you could have a whole seperate category for random encounters...hundreds of thousands of possible combinations for limited design time.

Trust me, using this method you could write content faster than the players could eat it up.  With the system in place, you only have to re-use existing elements.  Not to mention adding content would be a breeze.

PFDSWolfman

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7

Report this Nov. 02 2004, 4:19 pm

So many idea's, and so many opinions.
I like to PvP (As long as PVP is balanced!;) And Ill PVE, combat AI or whatever you call it. Depending on my mood from day to day I like the choice.
Definally the game should have multiple factions, Not just Fed & Klingons, theiy are allies and eventually people will be bored.
Romulans should be playable. Romulans also send out their ships for Science and exploration, so I see no reason why people should'nt be able to play as Rom.
Will make things interesting, if a player Starfleet Captain decides he wants to forget about orders and cross into the neutral zone to destroy a Romulan outpost and then has to face a court martial IF his ship makes it back to Fed Space.
Heck at least that player can choose to join the Klingon Empire,Maquis faction or work your way back into the high ranks of Starfleet.
PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT! I can't stress that enough.
Diversity, and staying TRUE to the StarTrek Universe will make a great game.

I personally don't like the idea of Jem'Hadar or Borg Drone players. 2 reason's and Ill explain why, #1 From the shows we know both races have little or no choices on what they do. Specially Borg, since they have a singular mind. 2ndly, Borg are powerful, I would like them to stay that way. If you had a player controlled cube, You can bet it'd be toned down to be comparable to a large Starship. If it isn't then you can imagine, that noone would PvP except for players that have Borg cubes.
They should be in the game, but AI only controled.

Daybreak

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 652

Report this Nov. 03 2004, 11:32 am

Oh for sure.

Put the Borg and Dominion in, maybe set the game initially to a few years before the dominion war and run with an accelerated calendar so the war could occur with the second expansion.  I say second based on a rather base presumption that the klingons and romulans will be in the first expansion, and the cardassians in the second.

And definitely, don't allow the players to control either the Borg or the Dominion.

JazH

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1849

Report this Nov. 03 2004, 5:42 pm

Quote (Daybreak @ Nov. 02 2004, 4:32 pm)
Oh for sure.

Put the Borg and Dominion in, maybe set the game initially to a few years before the dominion war and run with an accelerated calendar so the war could occur with the second expansion.  I say second based on a rather base presumption that the klingons and romulans will be in the first expansion, and the cardassians in the second.

And definitely, don't allow the players to control either the Borg or the Dominion.

I see this logic flawed... If perpetual were actually serious about factional PvP, they know its not possible to release new species and factions after the launch and NOT have an inblance..Even SWG has a massive factional war problem with too few imperials...

Unless perpetual intend players to change their own species and faction without loss of money and skills is see no balance to pvp (which isgreatly needed) if they come out in an expansion

BeerMeal

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 310

Report this Nov. 03 2004, 7:35 pm

Hopefully Perpetual is NOT serious about factional PvP.

It would appear the direction of the game is going to follow the Star Trek theme (listen to the opening lines of TOS or TNG if you don't know what I'm talking about) judging by the FAQ and everyone being in Starfleet.

Ellessar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1848

Report this Nov. 03 2004, 11:41 pm

Quote (Admiral_H @ Nov. 03 2004, 2:42 pm)
Quote (Daybreak @ Nov. 02 2004, 4:32 pm)
Oh for sure.

Put the Borg and Dominion in, maybe set the game initially to a few years before the dominion war and run with an accelerated calendar so the war could occur with the second expansion.  I say second based on a rather base presumption that the klingons and romulans will be in the first expansion, and the cardassians in the second.

And definitely, don't allow the players to control either the Borg or the Dominion.

I see this logic flawed... If perpetual were actually serious about factional PvP, they know its not possible to release new species and factions after the launch and NOT have an inblance..Even SWG has a massive factional war problem with too few imperials...

Unless perpetual intend players to change their own species and faction without loss of money and skills is see no balance to pvp (which isgreatly needed) if they come out in an expansion

Admiral H, I think your SWG information is a bit out of date. It is true that for the initial months of SWG the imperials were a smaller percentage of players. However, that has turned around considerably.

Intially most players joined the rebels because they identified with them from the movies. But after a while the older vets began to go imperial. If you were to poll SWG today I think you would find an approxiamtly eqaul number of rebel to imperial players. The rebels may have slighly higher numbers. However, it is a definate fact that there are more OVERT imps running about than over rebs. Also, I would wager that imperials tend to be long time veterans with much more experience. Most of the people I have know that have played since launch are imperials.

So if STO had factional war I image a similar system would develope. At first lots of players would go Starfleet then the older vets who want a more active war would go to other factions.

But you are right about the expansion comment H.  What I have just said would only apply if there were factional conflicts at launch.  Most players will not leave their characters to create a new one 6months to a year later when factional war and new races would come in an expansion.  

If other races such as Klingons come in expansions then the devs are a few cards short of a full deck.  Expansion races will not grow to large numbers.  In these MMOs grinding up your character is typically a long, boring, repetitive process.  That is not something too many players will want to do over again when an expasnion hits.

I am personally for factional skirmishes. I do not think the galaxy should be war torn, but this is a game. Running about exploring the cosmos and being a scientist do not make for fun gameplay. So there needs to be a good bit of combat in the game. If the game is only PvE combat I think perpetual will be dropping the ball big time.

JazH

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1849

Report this Nov. 04 2004, 12:24 pm

Quote (BeerMeal @ Nov. 03 2004, 12:35 am)
Hopefully Perpetual is NOT serious about factional PvP.

It would appear the direction of the game is going to follow the Star Trek theme (listen to the opening lines of TOS or TNG if you don't know what I'm talking about) judging by the FAQ and everyone being in Starfleet.

And Ds9 went out the window I suppose?

anyhow, in my server Shadowfire (i left in september)..There were are still are more rebels than imperials, second up... The imperials dont come out to play at all in pvp unless theyre in groups ganking...why? because solo pvp makes them fee victamised versus the number of rebels around..

Daybreak

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 652

Report this Nov. 04 2004, 5:14 pm

Romulans, Klingons and Cardassians should be considered and expanded into player races before the Borg and Dominion are even considered.

Of course my preference is motivated solely by the fact that those three have a culture that makes them more interesting and the Borg / Dominion are a bunch of uninteresting clones/drones with l33t ships and nothing else.

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