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This is being done wrong!

mmocritic004

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 14

Report this Oct. 16 2004, 1:45 am

I apologize for being Rash, and it is a shame that I am not a genius programmer with all the money in the world and time to boot, otherwise I promise with my mmo experience I could blow you all away I bet. So many ideas, and developers never want to listen to me.

I am sure I am like a lot of ppl when saying this, however in the MMO field I have spent alot of time helping tile and create character heads for smaller online games during their beta's.

I can say that I am perhaps a little crazy with my sense of role play fanatisism, even if this is not considered an RPG... it is still playing the role of a character... so really it is one. Anyway, to make a long story short!!

What makes ANY Game exciting? Storyline? yes, but very rarely and if online it has to be player driven... cannot be the same npc plot for every person on every shard or server. Player driven is important, question is how do we make visible and audible the effects done by players in player made scenarios  (PMS) "lol".

What else makes a game exciting? Well I will tell you what makes final fantasy 5 playable! its not the storyline! Its customization! The ability to make your characters, ships, fleet, etc however you would like it... in the mmo world its really important to let groups decide how to do things. Instead of a federation career only to be allowed a ship and so forth, there should be possibilities of renegade ships. In fact have you actually considered what the commissioned ship is going to do while the captain is offline for a week on vacation somewhere irl... or while hes sleeping? Perhaps change it to computer driven staff until the said commanders/crew can resume play! these should be customizable!

Startrek bridge commander had some flaws too, they should have all been customizable and there should have been voices to choose from for your personal captain so that he could actually talk. Choices to choose from etc.

Now onto a touchy subject, PVP(player vs player)! or in some games PK (player killing). I played Graal online for a long time, Why? well i hated walking into the game and being killed ruthlessly by some jerk before even getting used to the game, and even so this went on for some time. However! eventually more and more storyline about gaining area's under my guilds control came into play! battles on virtually every environment were offered and that was what made such a laggy 2d game like graal great (that and there was actual skill involved instead of turn based stat controlled battling so if you became the most skillful you became the best... probably wasnt so much fun for the worst though! Thats where balance comes into play).

Now on the bridge it boils down to quick thinking and team work, and the ability to excersize this quickly! Your gonna need the ability to devote whatever power to whatever systems, choose your warp speed even, manuever types (like DS9), choose for spread types, and torpedo firing orders. One of the other most important things I can bring up are premier items.. things that only one person on the server has... sadly with bigger mmo's the glory of becomming renouned as the greatest in the entire universe is impossible! However the alternate universe ideal could come into play here easier than say everquest.

You are suggesting limiting all activity to starfleet! WHAT A NO NO!!! when there are so many possibilities! Borg, Klingon, Romulan, Dominion, Ferengi, and what of renegade commissions?! this is where custom PMS's Come into play! Open rival turfs! the gamma quadrant and/or beyond any wormholes!!! could you imagine being able to choose romulan and end up being in command of a warbird and then taking your ship out to battle say a galaxy class federation ship?! over some moon's mineral deposits... the players have to feel the glory or they wont come back! don't take my word for it! Ive played numerous mmo's, offline console, and offline pc games sine I was a child (22 now). I seek a change from the nonsense we have right now on most mmo's! Heed my advice! Perhaps I sound cocky! I merely suggest from experience!! PVP is a good thing, customization is a good thing, oh man the possibilities there are! its crazy!

Well I hope someone pays attn.
Sincerely,
MMOCRITIC[B]

Ellessar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1848

Report this Oct. 16 2004, 2:06 am

Well it is a bit odd for you to say the game is not going in the right direction when you havea post count of one and and not really been monitering the forms or contributing.  Not to mention that the stuff in the FAQ is a very preliminary outline.  WHo knows how much will change.  That is a concept of a concept of a concept at this point.  Nothing in there is concrete.

Now let me address a few of your points.

1) The idea of other than starfleet factions:

Yes I agree in part.  However, you cannot allow all faction such as Romulan and Borg and so on.  It would make no sense for players to be able to be Borg.  SInce you cannot control whatat player does in game they could conceivably be borg and play along side a human in the federation and havea guild going.  That would not make sense.  Certain groups would not cooperate together, the only way to keep things real is to limit what factions players can belong to.

But yes there should be others.  Some kind of fringe/crimal elment, klingon, ferengi.  Yeah those would make sense in
game.

2) PvP

PvP is a large part of MMOs for a lot of players.  So it should be included.  However, the vast majority of MMOs rightly put restriction on PvP.  You cannot simply randomly kill other players.  PvP is typically only allowed in specific circumstancs and both players are fully aware of those circumstances.  SO a similar system would make sense in STO.

3) Customization

Huge.  This adds depth to the game.  SWG has loads of customization options.  Your characters actually look very different which is great.  This adds a personal touch to the game.  I agree this is needed component.

4)RP

No, I do not agree on heavy RP.  The simpl fact is most players do no RP at all.  In fact I think the attitude in most MMOs is one of hostility towards those who do RP.  RP is almost a tabo concept in many MMOs.  I don't necessarily agree with this, but it is what I gave observed.  Si I do not think it should be a focus.  it should be intergratedfor those who enjoy it though.

5) Content and Story

Yes, we need lots of content and a growing and exciting story.  Your action sshoudl influence the story.  it needs to change.  Missions need to be story and quest driven.  They should be more than just go here and kill everything in sight.  Missions need to be content rich and immersive.

I want to see fun and exciting story that I can get involved in.

mmocritic004

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 14

Report this Oct. 16 2004, 2:23 am

Well now! I will grant to you that i have not read hours of dialogue about current progress in this games developement.

However that does not mean that my concerns are not very serious from what i had read on the FAQ, so I hope it is merely a base of ideas.

PVP this is a topic that drives me crazy! Online games worlds are best driven by players when there is an ability to compete!! A lot of times feelings of accomplishment are best felt through glorious combat!

One of the biggest issues is limiting factions as I stated... this being the reason! People need to be able to fight for their squad, their empire, their territories! While some federation officers may not find control of their territory to be best accomplished by force... I am sure a Klingon or Romulan would.

Why not a Romulan? I can understand how borg could be difficult to pull off! But Romulans should be perfect unless I missed something in the series and they are all but eradicated!.. I didnt watch voyager much.... And I missed like 4 episodes at the end of DS9. XD

So im not following your objection those listed ideas... however you make sense on a lot of your beliefs! when it comes to pvp I am sure it will be more along the lines of disputed territories or breaking of security. If all goes well it should play out realisticly and say... Klingons will not burst into Federation Space attacking without getting severely thrown down.

Sanctuaries should be made however. Last thing to retort... sadly I cannot agree with your disagreements, I can respect you have your own opinions. Call it what you want but unless your name is irl your characters name, you are indeed playing the role of that character. I am not sure if in this game you will be raising stats of a character, or whatnot! If you are referring to being "In Character" while playing. It could do some harm to the game.. but considering this is not a medieval setting like most! it might be alright to use modern slang and general irl topic in the game without killing the whole mood. That would have to be strictly moderated, but really in some mmo's the leaders of player run organizations will insist on being in character while in the midst of a scenario/meeting/event. (reference: nexustk player subpaths)

It works well and designs an incredible realism feeling to the surrounding.

Just my input! hate me or love me for it :)

Im headed to sleep tho its late.

mmocritic004

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 14

Report this Oct. 16 2004, 2:32 am

oh one last thing I reread your idea on borg / romulans... wow im tired so it flew right through me..

Ok! I guess its time to look at another game that is in beta right now! WoW(world of warcraft) it has the ability to choose horde or alliance! you are either or! you cannot guild outside of those two! but those two can kill others! the problem with MMO PVP is usually just that it is FAR TOO LIMITED! noone really gets much of a chance to pvp outside of small designated arena's... that destroys the ability to create the realism needed... what needs to be done is that if you waltz into romulan space with a fed starship, they should be given automatic planetary defense systems to start and then eventually it should be all upgraded by the players.... but disputed territories can be the big battleground for players.. and with all the space in the universe these places could be many! and could be conquered and then guarded!!!! We arent talking small guilds there! we would be talking empires and ... fleets!

Surat

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 334

Report this Oct. 16 2004, 3:12 am

There are enough Star Trek fans who would choose to play as Klingons to make that a playable major faction.  For all other standard Starfleet adversaries, I really don't think you'll care if the 3 Birds of Prey on your a* are piloted by players or AI. :)

I've been an active advocate for Independents in this game since day one. There should be an Indie faction, populated by all those 'entrepreneurial types', who would like to buy and own their own ship, and do with it whatever they wish, including attacking Starfleet vessels.

A criminal element within the Indies that is always PVP, how does that sound?  I think it sounds GREAT!  :)

Of course, if they do decide to cross the line, they would then be flagged as attackable by Starfleet.  The Indies would also be greatly disadvantaged by the limitations of the ships they can afford, but what they don't have in firepower they can make up for in skill, as they do not need to be concerned about purchasing RANK with their experience points, they can put it all into skills.

However, if they work together, like the Orion Pirates, with their their potentially kicka* skills, they would be a formidable match for even the heaviest of the starships.

No, they MUST make an indie faction, don't worry.  The DS9 fans alone will see to it.

As far as Rommies and Borg etc.  No, I highly doubt there would be enough player interest to warrant creating all that would be required to sustain them.  But back to the Klingons, absolutely!  Many posts ago I suggested they make it an expansion pack.  By that time, many players will want a change from Starfleet and many veterans will be eager to test their skills against other players.

Speaking of PvP though .. there will be a heck of a lot of it in this game! In the Simulators! :)  If that's what a person wants to do, they could spend all their online time hanging out at the simulators, or taking part in Starfleet 'exercises' (low-yield phasers/unarmed torps).

Admiral_Jones

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 13

Report this Oct. 16 2004, 8:02 am

I have to say that limiting factions to Klingons is ridiculous. Offcourse people wanna be romulans or a cardassian.... All these empires have been well established and have more than enough heritage to build guilds upon them...... I for one would love to be part of the Bajoran militia and fly in there small renegade ship's and do whatever I'd like, be it mine for resources of take out npc cardassian frieghters for loot..... So i'd have to disagree with limiting faction's. Take into account how many people are going to be playing this game and then you'll kno that this faction's are nessaccary for the diversity of the game. Take Star Wars Galaxies,,,, The character customization is great. 8 races to choose from and every different character has there unique look. Thats where Final Fantasy erred. They have a limited amount of bodies to take control off which means your running around with mere clones with a different attidute. Completly ruins the atmosphere of the game.....   I think you'll be allowed to be different races at the beginning of the game if only to start of entering starfleet. But then patches and expansion packs allow for completly new factions to form as in the Romulan and Klingon empires, Bajoran Terrorists, Cardassians.... All of which is needed because that is what the STO community wants and what I want.... Even if we don't get it all at launch I'm sure it will be included at a later date!!!

Tal_Shiar_Officer

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1652

Report this Oct. 16 2004, 11:28 am

Who wants to be a Klingon? Romulans are sneaky backstabbers with cloaks and cool insignias.

Anyways, I would like to see these races. But it is not an issue of want, but a matter of difficulty. You want Romulans in the first release? (They will probably have an expasion pack) You can code 'em, make models for them, make planets, and all that good stuff. It's very tough work.

BeerMeal

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POSTS: 310

Report this Oct. 16 2004, 2:05 pm

You cannot have a MMO that is heavy on PvP.  What you will end up with is a gankfest.  Only those people who are good with twitch skills will stay.  PvP should be extremely limited and only be available for those who want to play that style.

You can't force a certain playstyle on anyone.

Also, most of what you are suggesting about customization and the scope of various factions are limited by technology.  Sure, it would be really cool to have every Star Trek race and allow people to play them, but imagine the infrastructure needed to support all that.  Plus, if you add too many choices, there won't be enough players to fill all the roles.  You'll end up with half the server in Starfleet, another large chunk as Klingons, then a smattering in everything else.

The other thing is what exactly will one work toward?  Most people think in terms of conquest.  As though the goal of the game is to kill as many of their enemies as possible and take their territory.  That is not the mission of Starfleet, although it might be the mission of other factions.  Will the game allow territory to be held and fought over?  I hope not.  I don't want my shop on Earth to be suddenly taken over by Romulans and a year's worth of work be destroyed.

mmocritic004

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 14

Report this Oct. 16 2004, 3:12 pm

Well Beermeal I must say I understand the skeptisism on the ideals! But people generally learn how to defend themselves after a while even in fully open pvp situations! Even so that is what a guild is generally designed for!! I did not specify the planetary defense, but in startrek murder is a crime just about anywhere you go! so NPC officers.. etc. will be protecting a lot of walk around areas...., if you are in your fleet/empires space then on a starship you will not be at much risk of being attacked. If starfleet players are what they should be! they will be protecting lesser factions and doing a lot more exploratory missions.

Romulans will be likely to try to attack unprovoked! yet I am sure there will be ways to gain funds and build the militias and still stay alive!

These ideas will make the feel realistic... on a starship the twich reflexes required in real time sparring for single characters will not come into play! smaller ships can defeat bigger, or smaller numbers can outwit larger numbers by using proper tactics... hopefully it is accurate with the show and how the bridge for example is ran by the captain, the first officer, and the rest of the crew!

Also another thought that has probably been thrown on the table is the ideal of specializing in a field of  astrophysics, engineering, medicine, psychologists, security, millitary, tacticians, etc... but then again perhaps they could have an option to be captains either way! I know I have seen doctors fill in for captains before on the series!

I havent been following all of the ideas... crafting of course I did see mentioned and is a brilliant idea for any game! Holodeck scenarios could be fun!  that would most definately be an obstacle to tackle! but like one fella mentioned in replying... Final Fantasy messed up in look customization! you are too right! Also why of all games on earth would final fantasy 11 not include several minigames to play?!?!? Thats where a holodeck could be thrown in, and or various casino situations in space stations and planets.

Wow the developement team would probably consider me crazy, it is definately a lot of work! But we are talking the differance between a game people will play religiously for years, and a game people will play maybe a month and a small following might latch on to otherwise. If the game isnt done right it could die in its beta like a lot of would be mmo's do! or get cancelled in mid design like True Fantasy Live online and many others have!

Oh yeah one more note on Ganking! ... it is exciting to be Gank... not fun to be ganked! thats just something players are best to find a way around! There was a reply on Bajoran Militiamen/women looting cardassian freighters! Too awesome! and we know ferengi will love to loot as well! but with the proper security placed things should be more than difficult for the opposing factions.... and with a Giant like starfleet it is possible that the smaller weaker factions can count on aid from their heroic Armada! Its almost Good Vs Evil, but I would say Noble vs Ruthless!

Im sure we can work with it! :)

Sincerely,
The Wordy
MMOCRITIC

mmocritic004

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 14

Report this Oct. 16 2004, 3:26 pm

oh here I go putting in another post right after the last... sorry I forgot something! A lot of MMO's have a karma system! EX. Nexustk, and Ultima online.... well it would be replaced by rank points!

People who break the oaths of various factions will have to be dropped in rank points and eventually decommissioned... however to do things that are for the oath can raise it.

For example! We know Starfleet isnt out to conquer! so Conquest scenarios for SF will be minimal! However Scenarios protecting, and exploring will be much more common than say Cardassians, Romulans, and Klingons who will seek to conquer and achieve glory in battle! although this might happen as well! I seriously doubt starfleet will be without a lot of players! it is the faction of startrek's origin! I am sure if anything it will be the strongest and least offensive! So that will allow a lot of opportunity for other factions that are smaller!

Oh there may be a worry that renegades will attack and destroy too much! perhaps conquest before people can build up! (btw I would say a list of templates for oath choices when it comes to player made factions so that they can raise and lose points accordingly) even so, the best thing to do is give the base factions a head start perhaps from where they would have left off in whatever timeline we are in. Already having a fleet(computer ran) until we can have players take over! Small factions would have to start from scratch!

hope this helps!
MMOCRITIC

stink101

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POSTS: 441

Report this Oct. 16 2004, 3:58 pm

-- WOW this was a rant ignore what I said --

Ellessar

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POSTS: 1848

Report this Oct. 16 2004, 11:02 pm

MMocritic004 you can just edit old posts if you think you have forgotten something instead of double posting.  There is a little edit button on the side of your posts.

As for the ganking element.  I don't want to see any of it.  I fall to the side that says PvP should be limited, but still fun.  PvP needs to be controled and something that players must be fully aware they are doing.  Certain areas of the game, regions of space can be areas where PvP goes on.  If you eneter one of these areas you are told about it and if you are part of a faction then you can be attacked by your current enemies in other factions.  But no random PvP in the normal gamming spaces.  PvP needs to be controled or else it is just Thunder Dome.

Surat

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POSTS: 334

Report this Oct. 17 2004, 1:15 am

:)

mmocritic004

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 14

Report this Oct. 17 2004, 2:31 am

:D  Well that could work! we certainly dont want a freak situation like the federation being totally destroyed or something! :P

Thanks very much for the info! I have no clue why it did not come to mind to edit instead of double post! I guess that was kind of silly of me :P  

I must say I am drooling over the idea of this MMO Star Trek! if it is realistic to the TV show and movies, it should be absolutely incredible! Random PvP would take from the realism for many reasons! But I still think a lot of PVP areas should be available! Ganking isnt a horrible thing! Ganking = Ambush! to take the possibility of an ambush completely out of the game would be a tactical disaster and make it very unrealistic. Distress calls from starships could be great for player made storylines! heroic Federation ships aiding the outnumbered starship from the evil ferengi marauders who are trying to loot them for latinum.

Anyway! not trying to over post here! just wanted to say thx for the tip :)

Ok! on to the last reply!

Really a PC starship's crew cannot be there 24/7, there has to be some way to fill the gap between off and on times! The best thing I can think of also could be of course the next officer in line will fill in for captain or if the ship is without any officers it is automatically docked with a space station by a npc crew.

Every starship will need someone to be there even when players are not! This is why we will need computer replacements for lower than commander rank npc officers to fill in and take commands via text or clicking with the mouse for example.

Its simple! when the Players arent there! the Factions will have their ships filled by npc's (other than the commander) and then it will dock if there are no humans to place as captain for the time being! Before the factions are filled all ships should be fully ran by npc's and then replaced as rank points grow enough for a ship commission then the player should take command (or at least wait till the player outranks the npc.. you just dont want the npc making decisions for players!;)

However due to the work involved by the team, to make things most interesting. Instead of just creating the game complete with all of the factions to join, like I believe YOu mentioned... lets make it an expansion. But at the very least offer two factions to join in the beginning! I would assume the best way would be allowing the excisting klingon empire to be allied with the federation and then for the romulans (the other joinable faction) to be our nemisis.

Eventually other expansions can come in for rogue militias, ferengi, etc... and they will be awaited with much anticipation when it happens!!! People will gladly throw in another $35-40 dollars for that expansion and there will be a little more space added, a few new customizations here and there for perhaps shops and stuff! And the Team can feel less overstressed!

And we can have our freedom to truly be a being in the universe of star trek!

Melbu

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 58

Report this Oct. 17 2004, 4:14 am

hummmm...

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