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Aliens! ?

decoder34

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POSTS: 109

Report this Oct. 04 2004, 11:48 am

hi guys... my first topic... and im gona ask a simple one.... if we did have ships like Ent, and we went into deep space, how many believe that we would find lifeforms? and i mean vulcun, or klingon types, not single cell organisums!
what are your views on this?

Dan

Borg_Unicomplex

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POSTS: 3972

Report this Oct. 04 2004, 3:14 pm

All I got to say is if we are the only complex life forms in the Galaxy, then that is one large big waist of space!

lanceromega

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Report this Oct. 04 2004, 9:08 pm

Quote (decoder34 @ Oct. 04 2004, 8:48 am)
hi guys... my first topic... and im gona ask a simple one.... if we did have ships like Ent, and we went into deep space, how many believe that we would find lifeforms? and i mean vulcun, or klingon types, not single cell organisums!
what are your views on this?

Dan

what ever life we find, will very likely be very different from the Humaniod aliens of Star trek..

Ellessar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1848

Report this Oct. 04 2004, 9:11 pm

Quote (lanceromega @ Oct. 04 2004, 6:08 pm)
Quote (decoder34 @ Oct. 04 2004, 8:48 am)
hi guys... my first topic... and im gona ask a simple one.... if we did have ships like Ent, and we went into deep space, how many believe that we would find lifeforms? and i mean vulcun, or klingon types, not single cell organisums!
what are your views on this?

Dan

what ever life we find, will very likely be very different from the Humaniod aliens of Star trek..

I agree.  I think that if we do encounter life out there it will be so fundamentally different from our own lifeform that we may not even appreciate it as life.  But I think the universe it to vast and magnificent to be made up of only one lifeform.

NCC1701Acadet

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POSTS: 14

Report this Oct. 04 2004, 10:30 pm

I don't think we would find a planet or Vulcans or anything. Maybe something like them, but I don't belive there are aliens in our Galaxy.:) :)

NCC1701Acadet

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POSTS: 14

Report this Oct. 04 2004, 10:31 pm

I don't think we would find a planet of Vulcans or anything. Maybe something like them, and I don't belive there are aliens in our galaxy:)

yourSymphonyInC

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POSTS: 143

Report this Oct. 05 2004, 1:05 am

if you're asking if there is intelligent life in the universe, i say absolutly. in our own galaxy? of course! BUT, if  you're asking if we would be able to run into them by chance? hard to say... our galaxy is a MASSIVLY big place... even in star trek, only a fraction of it has been explored.... Our Galaxy is about 75000 Lightyears across and the nearest star, Proxima Centuari (in the same star system as Alpha Centuari, widly considered the closest) is 4.2 Lightyears away...

really hard to say if we'd "bump" into eachother

lanceromega

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POSTS: 3859

Report this Oct. 05 2004, 1:05 am

Quote (NCC1701Acadet @ Oct. 04 2004, 7:30 pm)
I don't think we would find a planet or Vulcans or anything. Maybe something like them, but I don't belive there are aliens in our Galaxy.:) :)

And you base this on?.......The fact is that the number of stars in our Galaxy, which is billions! combine with the fact that we are finding out that planets are common, and that even in our own solar system that life may exist on at least one additional planet ( Mar) means that the chances of life existing in other star system is almost certain.

If the process of evolution is similar then intelligent life life is also possible. The only problem is that evolution process has also create on our own planet very intelligent yet different life forms.

Dophlin seem to have intelligent at least equal to man, Squid and octopus have show amazing abilities to solve problems and behavior.

In all likely hood the Bug eye, tenacles monsters of 50's may be what we find when we finally meet other intelligent life forms of the universe.

DerSpiess

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POSTS: 17960

Report this Oct. 05 2004, 1:06 am

Quote (decoder34 @ Oct. 03 2004, 9:48 am)
hi guys... my first topic... and im gona ask a simple one.... if we did have ships like Ent, and we went into deep space, how many believe that we would find lifeforms? and i mean vulcun, or klingon types, not single cell organisums!
what are your views on this?

Dan

Ships like Trek?  We would have a chance but people forget that space is HUGE - so big it can't be imagined.

I believe 100% in other forms of intelligent life, seriously.  But I don't believe that any of them have any chance of reaching us, or us them.

Period.

lanceromega

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3859

Report this Oct. 05 2004, 2:20 am

Quote (DerSpiess @ Oct. 04 2004, 10:06 pm)
Quote (decoder34 @ Oct. 03 2004, 9:48 am)
hi guys... my first topic... and im gona ask a simple one.... if we did have ships like Ent, and we went into deep space, how many believe that we would find lifeforms? and i mean vulcun, or klingon types, not single cell organisums!
what are your views on this?

Dan

Ships like Trek? We would have a chance but people forget that space is HUGE - so big it can't be imagined.

I believe 100% in other forms of intelligent life, seriously. But I don't believe that any of them have any chance of reaching us, or us them.

Period.

Hummm, interesting especially in the light that once it was said that it was impossible to sail around the world, for heavier than air aircraft to fly, air craft to Cross the altantic or fly around the world,  or Man can never reach the Moon. Or my personal favorite upon the introduction of the first railroad, " Man can not withstand speed of greater than 30 mph".....

That the problem with such prediction, their alway someone willing to test the "cann't" and show that it can be done. Or like my favorite Rogue would say "Never tell me the Odds"..

DerSpiess

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 17960

Report this Oct. 05 2004, 2:42 am

Quote (lanceromega @ Oct. 04 2004, 12:20 am)
Quote (DerSpiess @ Oct. 04 2004, 10:06 pm)
Quote (decoder34 @ Oct. 03 2004, 9:48 am)
hi guys... my first topic... and im gona ask a simple one.... if we did have ships like Ent, and we went into deep space, how many believe that we would find lifeforms? and i mean vulcun, or klingon types, not single cell organisums!
what are your views on this?

Dan

Ships like Trek?  We would have a chance but people forget that space is HUGE - so big it can't be imagined.

I believe 100% in other forms of intelligent life, seriously.  But I don't believe that any of them have any chance of reaching us, or us them.

Period.

Hummm, interesting especially in the light that once it was said that it was impossible to sail around the world, for heavier than air aircraft to fly, air craft to Cross the altantic or fly around the world, or Man can never reach the Moon. Or my personal favorite upon the introduction of the first railroad, " Man can not withstand speed of greater than 30 mph".....

That the problem with such prediction, their alway someone willing to test the "cann't" and show that it can be done. Or like my favorite Rogue would say "Never tell me the Odds"..

These previous barriers were speculative.  The fact of the distance between Worlds is based on actual calculated scientific fact.  If you don't understand that or can't imagine the power needed to bridge those gaps you're either lacking imagination or the will to think through the problem.

At light speed (which we have no way of attaining, even closely) it would take 44,000 YEARS to reach the nearest star.  LIGHT SPEED.  If you have a magic method of travel or are somehow smarter than the average bear, then lay it out, MacDuff!

Madlib

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 546

Report this Oct. 05 2004, 3:15 am

Quote (DerSpiess @ Oct. 04 2004, 11:42 pm)
These previous barriers were speculative. The fact of the distance between Worlds is based on actual calculated scientific fact. If you don't understand that or can't imagine the power needed to bridge those gaps you're either lacking imagination or the will to think through the problem.

At light speed (which we have no way of attaining, even closely) it would take 44,000 YEARS to reach the nearest star. LIGHT SPEED. If you have a magic method of travel or are somehow smarter than the average bear, then lay it out, MacDuff!

Der I am afraid that there is a problem with your math.  The closest star is Proxima Centauri which is 4.3 lightyears (A lightyear is the distance traveled by light in a vaccuum in a year... roughly 5.9 trillion miles from earth).  By my calculations at the speed of light it would only take 4.3 years to reach Proxima Centauri.  YOu were off by a factor of 10,000.

For  anyone interested there is an equation that assumes to account the probabilities of finding intelligent lif ein the galaxy, called the Drake Equation.  Not by flying around spcae but by picking up radio signals that intelligent species like humasn may use to communicate.  the equation is:

R * Fp * Ne * Fl * Fi * Fc * L = N

Where

R - Rate of formation of suitable stars in our galaxy (number per year) R =  

Fp - Fraction (percentage) of those stars with planets Fp =  %  

Ne -Number of "earths" per planetary system Ne =  

Fl - Fraction (percentage) of those planets where life develops Fl =  %  

Fi - Fraction (percentage) of sites with intelligent life Fi =  %  

Fc - Fraction (percentage) of planets where technology develops Fc =  %  

L - "Lifetime" of communicating civilizations (years)

N - Number of communicative civilizations


However the exact value wont be able to be determined becasue there is no accurate data for many of those variables, so any attempt now would be mere speculation.  However it does frame the question nicely of wheteher we will ever find intelligent life.

lanceromega

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3859

Report this Oct. 05 2004, 3:20 am

Quote (DerSpiess @ Oct. 04 2004, 11:42 pm)
Quote (lanceromega @ Oct. 04 2004, 12:20 am)
Quote (DerSpiess @ Oct. 04 2004, 10:06 pm)
Quote (decoder34 @ Oct. 03 2004, 9:48 am)
hi guys... my first topic... and im gona ask a simple one.... if we did have ships like Ent, and we went into deep space, how many believe that we would find lifeforms? and i mean vulcun, or klingon types, not single cell organisums!
what are your views on this?

Dan

Ships like Trek? We would have a chance but people forget that space is HUGE - so big it can't be imagined.

I believe 100% in other forms of intelligent life, seriously. But I don't believe that any of them have any chance of reaching us, or us them.

Period.

Hummm, interesting especially in the light that once it was said that it was impossible to sail around the world, for heavier than air aircraft to fly, air craft to Cross the altantic or fly around the world,  or Man can never reach the Moon. Or my personal favorite upon the introduction of the first railroad, " Man can not withstand speed of greater than 30 mph".....

That the problem with such prediction, their alway someone willing to test the "cann't" and show that it can be done. Or like my favorite Rogue would say "Never tell me the Odds"..

These previous barriers were speculative. The fact of the distance between Worlds is based on actual calculated scientific fact. If you don't understand that or can't imagine the power needed to bridge those gaps you're either lacking imagination or the will to think through the problem.

At light speed (which we have no way of attaining, even closely) it would take 44,000 YEARS to reach the nearest star. LIGHT SPEED. If you have a magic method of travel or are somehow smarter than the average bear, then lay it out, MacDuff!

strange since the nearest star is only 4 light years away, at light speed it would take 4 years!!!!

Fusion based rockets obtaining 10%  PSL can reach it in 40 years!!!!!

Maybe you should look it up. Here a list of the 26 closest:

Common Name Scientific         Name Distance (light years)

Proxima Centauri                    4.2    WoW 3 only 40 years
Rigil Kentaurus Alpha Cen         4.3              away
Alpha Cen B                          4.3
Barnard's Star                        6.0  
Wolf 359 CN Leo                     7.7              
BD +36 214  7                       8.2
Luyten 726-8A UV Cet A           8.4  
Luyten 726-8B UV Cet B           8.4
Sirius A Alpha CMa A                8.6
Sirius B Alpha CMa B                8.6  
Ross 154                               9.4
Ross 248                              10.4
Epsilon Eri                            10.8  
Ross 128                              10.9  
61 Cyg A (V1803 Cyg)            11.1  
61 Cyg B                              11.1
Epsilon Ind                           11.2  
BD +43 44 A                         11.2  
BD +43 44 B                         11.2  
Luyten 789-6                        11.2  
Procyon A Alpha CMi A            11.4
Procyon B Alpha CMi B            11.4  
BD +59 1915 A                     11.6  
BD +59 1915 B                     11.6  
CoD -36 15693                     11.7  

True we donot know if any of them have planets or even life, but with in a mere 20 light years of earth there are 100's of star and we know of several with indication of cometary belts which would indicate possible planets.

True the distants are vast we are talking about decades of travel and a vast investment in capital and resource, but it doable with fusion technology and light sails. No magic involved...

DerSpiess

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 17960

Report this Oct. 05 2004, 3:26 am

My mistake.

Quote
Proxima Centauri 4.2 WoW 3 only 40 years


That's great, if we could go at Lightspeed. However, lightspeed is unattainable, to my certain knowledge.

Even a large fraction of LS is a problem.

so despite my error, it's still a major issue to bridge the gap from Star to Star.  And even assuming we could do LS.  How do we equip a ship to defend against the problems inherent in LS?  Do we have a Deflector Shield?  Do we have a way to deal with interstellar radiation?  With Cabin Fever from being stuck in a box for four years (assuming we could reach LS)?  How about exercise, boredom, nutruition, mental health, etc?  And when we get there?  How do we land?  Every calculation involves mass, so every extra thing you bring along is a problem.  Fuel is an issue.  You can't just wish for stuff.  And exploration is only worthwhile if you can get back to report.  So now, you have to DOUBLE everything we've just talked about.  Just to get home.

lanceromega

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3859

Report this Oct. 05 2004, 3:34 am

Quote (DerSpiess @ Oct. 05 2004, 12:26 am)
My mistake.

Quote
Proxima Centauri 4.2    WoW 3 only 40 years


That's great, if we could go at Lightspeed.  However, lightspeed is unattainable, to my certain knowledge.

Even a large fraction of LS is a problem.

so despite my error, it's still a major issue to bridge the gap from Star to Star.

Major issue yes, Impossible No!..

At one time it took months to cross the altantic, Years to sail around the world..

Also we donot need to go there in person. the first Starship wil be robotic probes, using light sails. Such a sail would allow a probe to transerve 4.5 Ly in 20 years or 40 light years in 100 years.

A fleet of 1000's Probes can reach 1000's of systems in under century.

all it takes is a really big laser and miles of Mylar....

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