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Bajoran Solar Sail

Mr_Tuvix

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POSTS: 157

Report this Aug. 12 2004, 12:58 pm

First of all, how did they get the solar sail into space? Did they have rockets? Bajoran rockets?

Second of all, when they go into warp, via the tacheon surge, or whatever, they have no deflector dish. What stoped them from getting smashed into bits. They had no structural integrity field either.

This whole thing is full of flaws.

CptHowdy

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Report this Aug. 12 2004, 1:09 pm

I guess what they were trying to do is replace solar radiation with tacheon particles to push it to warp. Solar radiation will only give you about 1/10th the speed of light. Maybe they figure the tacheon particles will act like a plow to push anything out of the way. But yes kinda dumb

AquamonkeyEG

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Report this Aug. 13 2004, 6:43 am

how bout that solatron wave thing in TNG (i think thats wat it was called) that pushed stuff into warp without the need of a warp drive

EmoDan

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Report this Aug. 14 2004, 1:16 pm

yea but even with that, they needs inertial dampeners, structural integrity fields, etc.

lanceromega

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POSTS: 3859

Report this Aug. 17 2004, 4:30 am

Quote (Mr_Tuvix @ Aug. 12 2004, 9:58 am)
First of all, how did they get the solar sail into space? Did they have rockets? Bajoran rockets?

Second of all, when they go into warp, via the tacheon surge, or whatever, they have no deflector dish. What stoped them from getting smashed into bits. They had no structural integrity field either.

This whole thing is full of flaws.


No inertial damper needed...

Well first Sisko build the sail in space to begin with. Originally the Bajoran must have some kind of lift Vehicle...

Recently the Japanese have deploy two prototype solar sails into outer space, so it not impossible..

Second Deflector arrays shields against Micro meteors, and donot protect against going to warp. And unless they actually ran into something there really nothing to worry about. Space tend not to be filled with matter, just look at the fact that most of the space craft we use today have no protection against Micro meteors.  

Structual Integrity field are not needed if a structure is stable to begin with. This is a tiny two man space craft not a multikiloton starship.

Now Tachyons are amazing particles they have what is called imaginary mass. Which means that the force they apply against the Sail would be is an imaginary force ( F=MA) what does this mean? it means that the vector of the force is rotated in a manner than the structure of the Solar sail craft goes not even feel an acceleration. No stress is applied against any part of ship...

No inertial damper needed...

The only problem is why wasn't this method of star travel more common, and why is there a steam of Tachyon in that area of the Galaxy?

AquamonkeyEG

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POSTS: 4915

Report this Aug. 21 2004, 2:37 pm

actually debri and space dust is very dangerous. when there are EVA's on the shuttle they always turn the shuttle so that it shields the astronauts from these things (even flecks of paint are dangerous). the deflector dish sweeps space dust out of the path of the ship otherwise, traveling at such high velocities they'd tear a huge hole into the ship.

some of the interstellar ship being designed currently have huge EM generators to funnel interstellar hydrogen into a scoop and to slow it down to be captured. otherwise it would tear right through the ship. but these ships are defensless against larger objects because they can't exactly steer around them.

lanceromega

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Report this Aug. 21 2004, 8:49 pm

Quote (AquamonkeyEG @ Aug. 21 2004, 11:37 am)
actually debri and space dust is very dangerous. when there are EVA's on the shuttle they always turn the shuttle so that it shields the astronauts from these things (even flecks of paint are dangerous). the deflector dish sweeps space dust out of the path of the ship otherwise, traveling at such high velocities they'd tear a huge hole into the ship.

some of the interstellar ship being designed currently have huge EM generators to funnel interstellar hydrogen into a scoop and to slow it down to be captured. otherwise it would tear right through the ship. but these ships are defensless against larger objects because they can't exactly steer around them.


The space shuttle is flying in orbit around the Earth and the debris that they are worry about is due to the thousands of rockets we have launch into space. we have shot so much garbage into orbit that Nasa attempts to keep track of the largest pieces. While the smaller pieces are unpredictable hazards. A Solar sail ship would not have to face this, since it a interplanetary / instellar craft.

Once you leave the Gravity well of earth the situation changes. Generally the density of matter in space is about 1 atom per cubic centimeter. And most of the matter is concertated around the gravity wells of planets and other stellar object.

As for the Bussard Ramscoop, it is doubtful that it would work. There are a few problems with the Bussard ramjet. One is the size of the magnetic field generated The magnetic field require is HUGE due to distribution of Hydrogen atoms ( remember 1 per cm ^3), estimated at over 10 million tesla for an unmanned vehicle. Generating such a field will take a lot of power itself, not to mention the power to charge the atoms in the flight path.

Also, the material captured in space would be mostly hydrogen, which is a lot harder to get a fusion reaction from than deuterium or tritium typically needed for fusion.

The biggest problem is the electromagnetic ram scoop itself. As the field lines of the magnetic field contract at the inlet funnel, the charged particles will not want to go inward, but rather will bounce outward away from the vehicle. In effect the magnetic scoop will be a magnetic bottle trapping the mass in a wide cone in front of the vehicle, but never getting close enough to be injected for fuel. Perhaps there is a solution to this problem by pulsing the magnetic field, but such a solution wouldn't be easy to implement.

So that a pipe dream.....

as for collision:

most of the danger of collisions would take place when a starship crosses either a meteor or comet belt., but even then the distribution of object and the chance of collision is extremely low.

just look at real life, none of the space probes we send have any protection at all against micro meteors and you yet to hear of the shuttles or any of the apollo space craft ever be struck by a micro meteor.

AquamonkeyEG

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Report this Aug. 22 2004, 12:18 pm

this is true the most danger is in passing thru the ort cloud, as an interstellar spacecraft could maneuver to avoid the asteroid belt completely. but we don't know very much about what dangers are presented in deep space like the theorized dark matter. there is still space dust in deep space from rogue comets that also present a danger

lanceromega

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Report this Aug. 22 2004, 9:27 pm

Quote (AquamonkeyEG @ Aug. 22 2004, 9:18 am)
this is true the most danger is in passing thru the ort cloud, as an interstellar spacecraft could maneuver to avoid the asteroid belt completely. but we don't know very much about what dangers are presented in deep space like the theorized dark matter. there is still space dust in deep space from rogue comets that also present a danger

Once again, depending on whether you are traveling thru a nebula or other matter rich region of space,which are easily mapped and avoided. The dangerous of collision is small....interstellar space is very empty....

Dark matter surrounds galaxies and donot interact with normal matter except thru the Weak force, so it like be bombarded by neutrinos, Dark matter would pass right thru a craft with out harming it.

Deflector array protect you from that 1 in million collison with a dust or micro meteor...

AquamonkeyEG

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Report this Aug. 24 2004, 6:33 pm

i thought that dark matter's gravity fields do affect normal matter

lanceromega

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Report this Aug. 24 2004, 8:28 pm

Quote (AquamonkeyEG @ Aug. 24 2004, 3:33 pm)
i thought that dark matter's gravity fields do affect normal matter

Gravity is a very weak force, even weaker than The Nuclear weak force. Unless you are talking about Dark matter version of a blackhole, there nothing to fear from the Gravity field of dark matter...

AquamonkeyEG

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Report this Aug. 24 2004, 11:05 pm

i meant as in holding the galaxies together. i remember something about the stars on the outer edges of the galaxy are moving too fast to just be orbiting the center and that it's dark matter that kinda drags it along faster

lanceromega

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Report this Aug. 25 2004, 12:08 am

Quote (AquamonkeyEG @ Aug. 24 2004, 8:05 pm)
i meant as in holding the galaxies together. i remember something about the stars on the outer edges of the galaxy are moving too fast to just be orbiting the center and that it's dark matter that kinda drags it along faster

That because there is more dark matter in the universe (X3) as normal matter.

Some form of dark matter like Axions can form  Bose Einstein condensate in space and can have density 1000 x greater than all the hydrogen in the universe.

Problem is tha this matter is electromagnetically invisible and normal matter moves thru it like neutrinos thru lead...

So the massive amount of dark matter between the galaxy would influence them via gravity, but would not effect a solar sail in the least.

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