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X-rays move faster than light!

chris_h

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POSTS: 23

Report this Oct. 03 2002, 4:19 pm

I just saw this on CNN.com.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/10/03/black.holes/index.html
Here’s the FTL paragraph:
"The jets seemed to start out faster than the speed of light, then slow down as they collided with interstellar gas and dust, much as air resistance decreases the speed of objects moving through the atmosphere.

’Initially the jets have been launched at a velocity close to the speed of light. Due to an optical illusion, the jet pointed toward us appeared to move faster than the speed of light,’ University of Paris astronomer Stephane Corbel said.

’Then the jets propagate into the interstellar medium and gradually slow down to velocities slower than the speed of light,’ said Corbel, lead author of a report on the matter in this week’s journal Science."
Optical illusion, eh? Wonder if they could get matter to go through that same "optical illusion?"

Q1

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Report this Oct. 03 2002, 4:42 pm

What exactly is this about again?

I never understood why Einstein thought nothing could travel faster than light. I mean why did he think that to begin with and what evidence did he have for it?

MonstersFromTheId

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POSTS: 867

Report this Oct. 04 2002, 10:14 pm

...a FAMOUS experiment called the Michaelson Morley experiment. It gets repeated all the time in colledges so that students can see it for themselves because what it so conclusively shows is light DOESN’T go faster than 186,000 mi/sec.
Picture this:
Someone points a gun at you and shoots a bullet. The bullet hits you at (pick a convenient number) 1,000 mi an hour.
Now put the same gunman on a rocket sled moving toward you at 2,000 mi an hour. He shoots again. How fast is the bullet going when it hits you now? Easy. 1,000 mi an hour + 2,000 mi an hour = 3,000 mi an hour. Right? Easy. Makes sense.
Light however DOESN’T make sense.
Have a guy point a flashlight at you. He turns it on. The light hits you doing 186,000 mi a second.
Now put the guy on the rocket sled moving at you at 2,000 mi a second and do the same thing. How fast will the light be going when it hits you now? Lets see:
186,000 mi a second + 2,000 mi a second = 188,000 mi a second right?
WRONG!
Against all common sense the light STILL hits you at the same 186,000 mi a second despite the fact that the guy with the flash light is moving toward you at 2,000 mi a second.
Mind you this is NOT THEORY. This is ACTUALLY WHAT HAPPENS *EVERYTIME* it’s tried.

The speed of light (in a vacuum where there’s nothin to slow it up, it’s goin as fast as it can) IS CONSTANT, it NEVER, EVER CHANGES.
Why? NOBODY KNOWS WHY. In fact Einstein’s mentor spent most of his career trying to figure out WHY the speed of light is constant. He never did come up with a plausable explanation of WHY, no one ever has, it doesn’t make sense, BUT IT’S TRUE, no matter HOW many times you try to prove otherwise.
Einstien just said "Fine. It might not make sense, but it’s true. The speed of light through vacuum is constant. We don’t know WHY that’s the case, we just know that’s the way it is. So now what? If we just accept the fact that, like it or not, that’s what we see EVERYWHERE we look, the speed of light IS constant in a vacuum, what implications does that have for how things work in the world?" That line of thinking led him to the idea that time & length must be what change, they’re relative. Doesn’t make sense either BUT in experiment after experiment after experiment done hundreds of different ways by hundreds of different people the results are the same. Length is relative, time is relative, but the speed of light in a vacuum is CONSTANT.
Again- this ISN’T theory, it’s NOT games with numbers, it’s REAL. That’s what ALWAYS happens in the REAL WORLD.
Weird, but I guess nature doesn’t care if it makes sense to us or not. It is what it is.

CaptainProton02

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Report this Oct. 05 2002, 6:57 pm

Einstein states in his General and Special Theory of Relativity "nothing, either matter or energy, can travel faster than the speed of light." Thus far his theories had been proven many times to be true. They are supported by physical demonstrations, mathametical equations and calulations. However General and Special Theories of Relativity didn’t account on the discovery of quantum mechanics and quantum physics which explore the sub atomic world of virtual particles. These unseen particles is what make detection of positrons, tachyons, quarks and other sub atomic hyperlight particles possible.

We also know, as a matter of fact now, that anti-matter do actually exists in nature. Scientists discovered these mirror matter particles while examining X-ray emulating from a newly discovered black hole.

There are also experiments in the United States that had proven faster than light could be possible. Currently scientists from Standford and Harvard are trying to confirm this claim released from MIT.

It’s still too early to tell but if this theory turn out to be true than the idea of a real warp drive won’t be far behind.

Master_Q

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POSTS: 1113

Report this Oct. 07 2002, 10:26 pm

Just to let everyone know that does not. Something like x-rays moving faster then light does not disprove what Einstein said. Theoretically even a message could go faster then light and we can send a signal (just a signal not a message, but the debate ranges on about that) faster then light through our understandings of quantum mechanics and other things. He only accounted from something like a human or a desk and it is true that it does not really accommodate quantum mechanics that much.

This is important information however and the article does describe some of the whys and ifs of the event in question.

Of course some people I have meet and some people on this board do believe that an object can go faster then light with out using some kind of subspace or anything to that nature. In my option if you truly understand and believe in relativity you must believe this. All of the variables that account in relativity are all connected. One that effects one thing affects them all even mass. Mass gains or increases due to velocity. There is really no support in the scientific community saying that you can go faster then light or that mass does not increase (remembering the principals I have stated about a x-rays for example, a message, . . . ). Not only mass, but understandings in time transformations shows us that going faster then light it would be a paradox with an impossible solution because of the dilation vs. the original. If you reason that logic out then you can see that it the case. It is not possible in the basic description.

One experiment I have talked about a lot on this board is one that deals with quantum mechanics and quantum tunneling. If we have a signal sight that is the most powerful one we have to date and a receiver that receives the broadcast, but the signal sight is partly blocked evenly. Then it pushes the broadcast out some of it gets stopped by the blocker and then some actually get through it going faster then light! Due to probability some get through and some do not, but the only way that they could get through is by going faster then light. The impossible happens and according to quantum mechanics this is true. Of course the signal site could not possibly create the broadcast to go faster then light its probability. So the ratios that make up probability and the very very large about of broadcast some get through and most do not. So something went faster then light just like a x-ray!

But please don’t confuse what I said to something like x-rays or something like what happened in the experiment because they are different then an object like me or you or a desk what makes it up is the key[or part of].

Star Trek & Physics Weekly Note:
Due to a project that I have been working on I have not had the chance to make up an edition for this week, but I will make sure that I make an edition for next.

I’ll see everyone on Friday [plus or minus one day] (that’s the next chance I will be able to come here).

Master Q
StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

Q1

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Report this Oct. 09 2002, 10:34 pm

Sure, light has a particular constant speed, but what makes the speed of light the fastest any object can travel? That was my question in fact.

Q1

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Report this Oct. 09 2002, 10:36 pm

I see, but I’d still like to know why Einstein thought that. The experiments and so forth don’t interest me. I want to know what his reasoning was for why light was the fastest speed possible.

boueboy

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POSTS: 9

Report this Oct. 17 2002, 11:20 pm

in my (Please dont laugh..) Advanced OAC Physics class (Grade 13 in Canada)

Light travels at 186000 miles/s (Sorry, i dont know the exact speed, so i ripped it from another message thread in this topic). So if a guy on a sled travels at 186000 m/s and throws on a flashlight, the light continues to travel at 186000 m/s faster than the guy on the sled, therefor making it appear to be traveling at 372000 m/s.

I dont know if its true, but if it is, i guess thats how the lights still worked on the enterprise when they were traveling at 9 times the speed of light (Warp 9).

Just my 2 cents...

Jeff

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